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    MMO starter template ...

    I am just watching a 40 + tutorial series on how to set up a MMO in UE4 and I was wondering how nice it would be to have a MMO starter template in UE4 ... for us lazy and time poor developers. :-)

    #2
    Lazy and time poor developers starting MMO project? Well, good luck

    You can always start by digesting exi's network compendium. It's quite minimalistic description of multiplayer game development.
    http://cedric-neukirchen.net/Downloa...Neukirchen.pdf

    Last edited by Moth Doctor; 09-16-2019, 04:29 AM.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Doctor Ergot View Post
      Lazy and time poor developers starting MMO project? Well, good luck

      You can always start by digesting exi's network compendium. It's quite minimalistic description of multiplayer game development.
      http://cedric-neukirchen.net/Downloa...Neukirchen.pdf
      They could call it the LTPDMMO template :-)

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        #4
        I do appreciate self-sarcasm

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          #5
          Originally posted by Etienne Andlau View Post
          I am just watching a 40 + tutorial series on how to set up a MMO in UE4 and I was wondering how nice it would be to have a MMO starter template in UE4 ... for us lazy and time poor developers. :-)
          Do not get discouraged by negativism everything is possible even by itself just persist

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            #6
            Originally posted by Data D Soong View Post

            Do not get discouraged by negativism everything is possible even by itself just persist
            Oh yes I know :-)

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              #7
              i be happy wit 200 player on a map vit cianles... honestly

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                #8
                such a thing as the Ultima online sphere server would be perfect som on must do a retrotech on sphere 1997 have 2000+ player on a machine that my smartphone is star trek in comparison
                Last edited by Data D Soong; 02-02-2021, 12:38 AM.

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                  #9
                  To be honest, the request itself is an interesting one. (While it really must sound sarcastic for people who landed on this topic before and worked their brains through the netcode jungle)

                  At this point let´s not talk about an MMO preset for a moment, but something that would make it easier to start creating multiplayer content with EOS, for example. To use "SIMPLE" multiplayer things "WITHOUT" loosing money because you followed some "free AWS server" Tutorial or buying marketplace assets like a server browser just to figure that its just pretty bare bones and the seller more or less talks about that he could get hired to build a front/backend for you.

                  Taking me as an example: I am an old grumpy Senior Artist without much coding experience, creating a vertical slice at the moment. I have no problems setting up all my Materials, Assets, Characters, Visual Content and basic Game-Play functions. This vertical slice is meant to go into production and of course for hiring programmers and network-alchemists. But since its multiplayer based, the struggle to start off a project like this for an artist without big coding background is real. In fact, it is hell.

                  Programmers get their belly's filled with easy to place and free art content all day while the art people gets a Cedric-Guide-For-Dummies-With-Coding-Background-Book smashed into their face - as (funny) comparison. Asking for help on that multiplayer stuff feels like I am Bilbo and want to steal Saurons Ring from Gollum. Take the joke like Ricky Gervais is talking to you and I bet you get my point.

                  Jokes aside, I am digging through the muds and odds of Multiplayer creation in UE4 for weeks now. I have read Cedrics guide like three times, understanding between 1 and 20 percent of the whole based on the number of Energy-cans in my fridge. I tried EOS and failed because its like jogging through Mordor on a hot summer day. I tried Steam Advanced Sessions and failed by running into dead ends because all tutorials just ends at certain points with the YouTubers sentence: See, it works for me, bye guys!

                  Finally, I came to the point where things start to work! Not perfect in any way because this journey is a constant trial and error every second and within my Blueprints looks like a burning house.

                  In conclusion, I think it would make sense to figure out on how to optimize the first contact with network/multiplayer for users that maybe just need a quick solution to show a proof of concept. For example, just take some architect who wants to show his building concept to a customer overseas. Things that are not that easy to setup as the little "listen server" and "number of player" buttons suggests. This is a big trap once you think about hiding IPs, trying Chat functions, bare inventory saving and not even being able to run proper tests with two PCs in the same network like they would be outside of it.

                  I strongly suggests any newcomer to multiplayer to write down what they want/need and then digging through YouTube looking for like five videos that covers each topic because every single one will be a Dark Souls game on its own, hard, but not impossible to beat.


                  Nice side-topic:

                  Data D Soong mentioned Ultima Online and it feels so unnatural that it was possible to run your little Ultima Online Sphere Server back in the days and had 200 people running around, most of them with ISDN or even modem speed internet connections. In 2021, its not possible to do something like this anymore?

                  In order to keep the Ricky Gervais alive at this point, did X and Y got a baby, called it Z and got too fat to move? What is the difference between walking 2D Characters on a big open 2.5D (!) world in the year 2001 with modem and walking 2D Characters on a big open (2D) 3D world in the year 2021 on fiber connection? I have a project under my bed that would allow a server like this but when I started on researching for UE4, all I found was a wall of crying souls, telling me that I would need scale-able Server-Systems and looked at me like I want to recreate World of Warcraft. In fact..it would be just a little Ultima Online tribute.

                  Cheers and love
                  Toby
                  Last edited by Kajiisan; 02-03-2021, 02:05 PM.
                  Tobias Löffler
                  Senior 3D Artist

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Kajiisan View Post
                    Programmers get their belly's filled with easy to place and free art content all day while the art people gets a Cedric-Guide-For-Dummies-With-Coding-Background-Book smashed into their face - as (funny) comparison.... I have read Cedrics guide like three times, understanding between 1 and 20 percent of the whole based on the number of Energy-cans in my fridge.... In conclusion, I think it would make sense to figure out on how to optimize the first contact with network/multiplayer for users that maybe just need a quick solution to show a proof of concept. For example, just take some architect who wants to show his building concept to a customer overseas. Things that are not that easy to setup as the little "listen server" and "number of player" buttons suggests. This is a big trap once you think about hiding IPs, trying Chat functions, bare inventory saving and not even being able to run proper tests with two PCs in the same network like they would be outside of it.....
                    Don't believe the hype.... eXi's PDF is fine as a quick reference guide (it can be read cover to cover in half an hour). But its hardly a HOW-TO guide... Neither are video tutorials or docs. They're all hopeless! You're better off just taking projects apart (see sig)....Or taking a singleplayer prototype and making it multiplayer (such as a Marketplace pack). As you'll gain more immediate knowledge about the problems / nuances of Multiplayer, versus learning any other way. But ofc, this is still the 'wrong approach' as far as the big book goes... But what % of indies actually know what their game is going to look like in the end, as not everyone is building a WOW clone. As regards your other points, entire libraries are filled with books detailing the complexities there...
                    Last edited by UnrealEnterprise; 02-03-2021, 08:44 PM.
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    What are the BEST Unreal Tutorials / Docs? There are none tbh... Here's why
                    Instead its better to just take projects apart (see the free 'creators' listed here)

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                      #11
                      Well overall its not a shitpost from me but my experience I already had with multiplayer. And I see a lot of people that have the same questions I had when I started and every time, the people who actually know their stuff threat these poor souls as complete idiots - given the fact that in 99% of the case I see the link to that mentioned PDF popping up each time like its a intern programmers joke. We actually had this in the Cinema 4D community when some kid showed up and told his dog ate the manual.

                      I get along with it and actually do what you mentioned already. Picking the best tutorials, plugins, etc, tear these apart and see whats usable for the things I need.

                      Overall, I just worry about that poor architecture guy - not me.
                      Last edited by Kajiisan; 02-03-2021, 09:31 PM.
                      Tobias Löffler
                      Senior 3D Artist

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                        #12
                        Its been so long I had time to read a book if I pick one up now I hold it upside down.

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                          #13
                          Actually my friends bully me for not having seen a lot of Netflix series. But at least they start to understand why and I am happy that I did not spend time on watching TV or reading any book but digging into Unreal Engine like a dwarf searching for crystals.

                          Long story short and to close that topic from my side: I think it would make sense to have a simple fresh multiplayer-template. Maybe with some supporting hints on how to use EOS (for example) in a way that it becomes as simple as setting up a character blend-space. If its not possible yet, maybe its time to revamp that system into something that makes it easy as that - like playing with volumetric clouds, the new water, etc. In a way where its becoming a tool for creative ideas and not your local 3 meter vampire mom that hits you every time you want to say "hello world"

                          Take care mates,
                          Toby
                          Tobias Löffler
                          Senior 3D Artist

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