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Round Corner / Soft hard edges ?

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  • replied
    I don't work for Epic. My point wasn't saying that the feature shouldn't be there, but that it's not surprising that it's not, since it's not a common feature. And it's not surprising that it's not that common, the implementations I've seen (like the Unigine SSBevel) don't allow variable edge radius so while it's nice you can add some small rounded corners to a mesh it would need to be able to allow different edge radius on a single mesh. You probably can't do that with something like a screen space effect (like in Unigine)

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  • replied
    Originally posted by darthviper107 View Post
    An automatic bevel effect is an extremely uncommon thing to find in a game engine
    Conceptually new features are extremely uncommon thing to find in a game engine until they become mainstream.
    Unigine already realized the potential and included it along with cavity based Dirt shaders.
    It will be literally everywhere in a couple of years and artists will be happier than ever.
    Its a very important tech for hard surface modelling and pipeline.


    Actually i have to expand.
    Don't brush it off as low priority issue just because "its not popular yet" and here is why:
    Most people that request this feature are professional 3d/tech artists, so low amount of users
    To understand this feature and why its the future of HS modelling (and has many other applications) you have to understand the woes and
    struggles with bevels and geometry artists go through.
    The industry has shifted from manual edge fiddling towards boolean workflows, it splits - using scuplting (Zbrush booleans, 3dCoat),
    specialized solutions (MODO MeshFusion), and traditional but accelerated tools (Blender HardOps, MeshMachine, BoxCutter).
    At the end of the process you have a mesh with wild geometry that needs to be properly beveled, and here the problems come.
    The sculpting approach relies on high polycount and literally smoothing the sculpt, then baking it down. This means the model bevels and other
    normal baked info is bound to the texture resolution, and on top of that its a very computationally intensive operation.
    Booleans with multi million poly meshes are slow to work with.
    Same for meshfusion, however the traditional approach has the possibility to skip
    beveling alltogether.
    Why would you want that?
    A: You will not be bound to UV0 base textures. With beveled shader you can have an mesh with wild uvs, any size, even triplanar, slap decals on it,
    and you get a very good result without legacy limitations.
    (Overwatch used separate decal corner meshes for all buildings to slap bevels and other effects, its a bit different but also an area where it would be possible to research into to possibly get bevel shader that is capable of projecting various effects on the corners).
    B: No bevel algorithm or workflow is perfect. Even if you bevel (and you will have to bake that later which defeats point A),
    you are bound to debugging all the broken geometry, there is no automation that solves it all algorithmically on mesh level,
    its manual labour with weights, hard/soft , or destructive manual chamfers. And still a lot of time fixing all the errors from
    base boolean ops. Its wasted time.
    C: Shader solution does not have this problem. Modification of the normal buffer is unaffected by underlying topology.

    Shader is not perfect tho, the implementation if taken seriously must be robust.
    The width of the bevel must be controllable, either through some channel in vertex color or any additional mesh data that can be fed,
    in 90% of the cases you wont need it, but it has to be controllable in some way.

    So again the main power of the tech, with bevels/dirt etc is losing the limitation of UV0, and allowing the rendering take care of it. Large/complex hard surface meshes with less limitations, i think it fits well with your direction for UE5. The more runtime render data can be extracted from meshes, cavity, thickness all that, the more we will move away from baking into runtime control.
    Last edited by pointcache; 06-14-2020, 07:24 AM.

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  • replied
    Watch the UNIGINE video and some other from their youtube channel. Pretty impressive realtime quality stuff there... didn't expeced that realtime can go to a such high quality rendering. Im in for the rounded corners feature is there a place to vote for the feature? I mean if Unreal focus on the Enterprise industry this feature would be is pretty cool with the native CAD import. Bye Bye offline rendering for ever

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Anh B. Nguyen View Post
    definitely need that, I do archviz and there is always tremedous amount of work when it comes to chamfered objects. The baked meshs usually show sights of lightmap error unless you shoot the lightmap resolution up to 512/1024 or unwrap manually. The hard edged objects for better unwrapping and soft hard edge material could lessen my work significantly.
    This is problem of your artist, not of the engine

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  • replied
    definitely need that, I do archviz and there is always tremedous amount of work when it comes to chamfered objects. The baked meshs usually show sights of lightmap error unless you shoot the lightmap resolution up to 512/1024 or unwrap manually. The hard edged objects for better unwrapping and soft hard edge material could lessen my work significantly.

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  • replied
    An automatic bevel effect is an extremely uncommon thing to find in a game engine, maybe Epic will add it eventually since they have been adding a significant amount of features to support users outside of gaming but the lack of that kind of feature isn't surprising.

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  • replied
    Go figure something else UE4 is behind on. They may be a giant but they sure are lacking in some areas. Especially for such a professional game engine. Being able to change colors of wires customize them so you can easily trace them for one, the uningine thing for 2 and half a dozen of other things you can tell they painted some of the wall with and then tried to cover it up a bit later for instance you have a slider to control the speed of your wasd keys and such when scrolling about your scene, but in other view ports you seem to have nothing til you google about and find out while holding right click you scroll up and down to change the speed of your mouse. It is as if 5 different teams are plastering this together with duck tape and super glue. I use modo so yeah I could bake down the rounded edges but to have that option available in UE4 would be much grander and far more customization there are some things that you are not sure how you want it to look until you get it in the engine rounded edges and even the bevel bit above is a good example. You could either A open it up, check it go that is c r a p, reopen it in your 3D modeling software edit it, bake it down again, and repeat til you get it right, or B have it in a a material instance where you either type a number in or make a slider if that was possible. I would choose B. Much like the appeal of Substance over Adobe albeit now Adobe bought them so it is going to be c r a p.

    Edit seriously guys really **** sorry c.r.a.p. is something that offends you?
    Last edited by Mundi Umdali; 04-02-2019, 10:04 PM.

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  • replied
    there is a feature inside UNIGINE called ssBevel for doing same effect ( go to 2:30 ) :

    Last edited by Siahpoosh; 03-06-2019, 08:26 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by ZacD View Post
    Here's a research paper on a solution: http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc...r-Graphics.pdf

    and a old thread from UE4 forums talking about it: https://forums.unrealengine.com/deve...r-every-corner
    thank u , its very useful

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  • replied
    Originally posted by TheJamsh
    No you can't, this is exactly what Normal Maps are for. Changing normal maps in real-time isn't easily possible at the best of times. They have to be baked/generated from some kind of source data. Usually this is a higher-poly model, and why this kind of thing is done in a 3D modelling package.

    You might be able to create a "round corner" shader for Unreal, but it wouldn't be very efficient.
    if u watch lumion videos about round corner shader , they did this in realtime in their engine , maybe its a post processing solution instead normal map , so its possible to do same thing in UE4 . maybe there is a trick for that , also there are few tricks in substance designer for doing this , i think epic can find a better solution for that
    Last edited by Siahpoosh; 10-23-2018, 05:18 AM.

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  • replied
    Here's a research paper on a solution: http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc...r-Graphics.pdf

    and a old thread from UE4 forums talking about it: https://forums.unrealengine.com/deve...r-every-corner

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Raildex_ View Post
    These are so-called Beveled or Chamfered Edges. In 3Ds Max you can do this by Selecting an Edge and use "Chamfer".
    You can then bake the normals into the lowpoly without these edges.
    yes i know , but there is always problem in converting them to normal map , and it will take time to do this for every single models , if we have an option in ue4 material editor for that , we can edit amount of that directly in ue4 . in realtime

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  • replied
    These are so-called Beveled or Chamfered Edges. In 3Ds Max you can do this by Selecting an Edge and use "Chamfer".
    You can then bake the normals into the lowpoly without these edges.

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  • started a topic Round Corner / Soft hard edges ?

    Round Corner / Soft hard edges ?

    There is a feature in Lumion called Soft edges , 3d render engines like vray,corona and ... called Round Corner . is this possible to have this feature in UE4 ? its very useful and will increase quality specially in reflected materials like metal , gold , silver and ... .
    i hope epic developers see this post. thanks




    Last edited by Siahpoosh; 10-23-2018, 03:42 AM.
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