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    Torture navigating and working within UE viewport.

    Hi,

    It's simple, Gizmos are too big and clunky, rotating an object obscures view with unnecessary large icons showing degrees, Similarly you can't rotate when selecting in the middle of the gizmo to enable all axis rotations at once. Also scaling objects is a torture as you have to move mouse pointer up and down when in 3d apps it's sideways. We need rotate around mouse pointer selection in space to facilitate navigation.

    Many more such problems exist which makes working within unreal a real hassle, I wish the interface is revised to be simpler more elegant and less clunky with large colorful icons, I feel if you look at 3ds max as a good reference it will be evident what can be improved.

    Also please make mouse invert pan option the default as it is with every 3d app out there.


    #2
    Originally posted by William K View Post

    you can't rotate when selecting in the middle of the gizmo to enable all axis rotations at once.
    Why would you ever want to do this?

    Originally posted by William K View Post
    Also scaling objects is a torture as you have to move mouse pointer up and down when in 3d apps it's sideways. We need rotate around mouse pointer selection in space to facilitate navigation.
    I literally checked just now and this is just factually wrong. The only time where sideways drag doesn't work is when you're scaling along the vertical axis. Every individual axis requires you to drag along that axis, all other settings allow for both vertical and horizontal drag. I think you're just doing it wrong.

    Originally posted by William K View Post
    Many more such problems exist which makes working within unreal a real hassle, I wish the interface is revised to be simpler more elegant and less clunky with large colorful icons, I feel if you look at 3ds max as a good reference it will be evident what can be improved.
    Remove all contrast and make everything nearly identical and flat? No thanks.

    Originally posted by William K View Post
    Also please make mouse invert pan option the default as it is with every 3d app out there.
    I am not sure what this even means. I compared the alt+right click panning in Max, Maya and UE4 just now and they behave identically.

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      #3
      Disagree with thread - but if you're interested - a past epic dev is working on a nice new transform gizmo:

      https://twitter.com/ozmant/status/967478317803765760

      Comment


        #4
        I rather had 3dsmax work like the ue4 navigation and UI, and ive been using both for more than a decade.
        Have to agree with Damir here.

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          #5
          Originally posted by William K View Post
          Gizmos are too big and clunky
          Edit > Editor Preferences > Transform Widget Size Adgustment

          Originally posted by William K View Post
          enable all axis rotations at once
          I think, there are no app that allows that. Since mouse only have 2 axes. But some app have 2 screenspace axes.
          In ue4 you could hold Ctrl, click and drag mouse key (left key - X, right - Y, both - Z).

          Originally posted by William K View Post
          Also scaling objects is a torture as you have to move mouse pointer up and down when in 3d apps it's sideways.
          It is scaling along axes of the gizmo. If axis aligned - horizontally, move mouse - horizontally.

          Originally posted by William K View Post
          Also please make mouse invert pan option the default as it is with every 3d app out there.
          Edit > Editor Preferences > Invert Middle Mouse Pan ?

          You also could enable hybrid gizmo in settings. (Enable Combined Translate/Rotate Widget)

          You could make own setup for navigation, all the sources available. And ofc you could make a PR after that.






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            #6
            Never felt even remotely near as OP. Not much to complain about stock UI.

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              #7
              Seems like we are on the hard end here .

              Sorry guys we've been using 3d apps for decades now, took us on average 3 times more time (we my fellow 2 colleagues and I) to place the same asset in UE than we usually would do in Max or Maya. something about it is off, at first Gizmo size was annoying too big too thick obstructs the view. I don't know maybe it's just us. We have been working professionally in Unity and this never really bothered with the interface. (yes we love the old fashioned gray over larger flashy icons, maybe we are too old for this who knows).

              * The invert option has become the ritual of wasting 10 seconds to enable it after each new project.

              * The Widget size does just that, makes them either universally small or big, doesn't really help in our case, also why do i need to see grids within the rotate gizmo its very annoying to the eye and i can't see whats behind it, furthermore if i make it bigger it's even more obstructing and smaller can't see the gizmo anymore.

              * The scale sideways is my bad for 3d app, what i meant was the opposite, maybe i should record a video to show this, but during scaling what happens often is sometimes the gizmo seems to get confused if it needs to scale up with my mouse panning up or down, sometimes it needs me to pan right and left to scale the object accordingly, you can try it on a simple box, it specifically happens when the view is something around 30 to 40 degrees looking at the gizmo, and when i select the opposite middle end. I have to usually unselect and select again for it to work correctly.

              * The last bit is that it will be great to have to be able to rotate around the area where the mouse clicks, this is similar to Max viewport, it helps to navigate large scenes and focus on the area of interest better. Not sure if this option is available somewhere.

              Anyway It doesn't matter if its not taking care of, I thought to post it here just the same, because its what we felt while assembling some scenes.

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                #8
                Originally posted by William K View Post
                we've been using 3d apps for decades now
                And You still not get used to new ui every other app? I've been working as 3d modeller for 15 years. 3ds, XSI, Maya, Zbrush, Marvelous, 3d coat etc. Every f-ing app had it's own controls and widgets.

                Originally posted by William K View Post
                The invert option has become the ritual of wasting 10 seconds to enable it after each new project.
                That would be a lie. Invert pan is in editor preferences. Means it's populated for all projects.


                Originally posted by William K View Post
                The last bit is that it will be great to have to be able to rotate around the area where the mouse clicks, this is similar to Max viewport, it helps to navigate large scenes and focus on the area of interest better.
                I have to agree on that one. It would be nice to have. I even though about writing such PR.

                Speaking of Gizmos. I think it's possible to make custom one. VR editor uses gizmo made within blueprint.

                Zbrush added ability to add custom gizmos as well.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by S-ed View Post
                  And You still not get used to new ui every other app? I've been working as 3d modeller for 15 years. 3ds, XSI, Maya, Zbrush, Marvelous, 3d coat etc. Every f-ing app had it's own controls and widgets.

                  That would be a lie. Invert pan is in editor preferences. Means it's populated for all projects.


                  I have to agree on that one. It would be nice to have. I even though about writing such PR.

                  Speaking of Gizmos. I think it's possible to make custom one. VR editor uses gizmo made within blueprint.

                  Zbrush added ability to add custom gizmos as well.
                  1 - yes no problem takes us a few minutes and we get used to new apps navigation it was a few seconds in Maya from Max same in softimage, Only software that gave us trouble was Zbrush when switching from mudbox way back when, but then again Zbrush is still a mess.

                  UE was much more of a hassle given its scope, look i don't want to get stuck over it, it's an honest feedback from users who have been using 3d apps professionally, Either it goes through or it doesn't, doesn't matter in the end. It felt strange, gave us trouble, and was very annoying, its not a simple matter of getting used or else we would've done it by now as we had done before, there is something wrong with it, or we felt there was by using it which hindered our process, so we write about it and move on. That's just an honest experience and opinion i'm not here to waste anyone's time by opening up threads randomly.

                  2 - I'm sorry not a lie , that's also a harsh word to use about something so trivial. If you have a project created and then create levels within the project preferences stay yes, but if you create new project the preferences reset to default (unless there's some voodoo settings we are missing). Also the point was to illustrate that it should be the default by design but that's just my opinion and is again a trivial matter honestly compared to the other points for us.

                  3 - Appreciate the reply on the custom gizmos possibility but i don't think we will hire someone just to look into it : ) development is already too costly to micromanage UI now, we were just hoping Epic would take it into consideration for future improvements if they so choose to. Turns out so far everyone else is happy with it here. So be it. It's a free world.

                  For us it starts wth the gizmos and ends with the outliner and goes onto general UI performance, maybe we are running two monitors and that's also giving us trouble, i mean the view starts further chugging on a simple scene everytime there's either a simple particle system or material editor open in the second monitor. it drags to resize windows and panels too.

                  Outliner has a mind of its own constantly expanding folders, unhiding objects, anytime we reload the level or project, sometimes when we run sequencer it resets our folder visibility and expands them other times when we simulate the game in the viewport etc.. there are so many such problems. Imagine if you have hundred of assets and so many sub folders, we go back manually readjusting those. I mean no way we are all imagining this. there is a problem and can't put our finger on it. something is up with it,

                  So that's about all.

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                    #10
                    You have to save your editor preferences as default for them to persist across projects.
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by William K View Post
                      Outliner has a mind of its own constantly expanding folders, unhiding objects, anytime we reload the level or project, sometimes when we run sequencer it resets our folder visibility and expands them other times when we simulate the game in the viewport etc.. there are so many such problems. Imagine if you have hundred of assets and so many sub folders, we go back manually readjusting those. I mean no way we are all imagining this. there is a problem and can't put our finger on it. something is up with it
                      Valid feedback!

                      The World-Outliner box is unpleasant! So much so I have to type random characters into the search box to force it to stop incessantly expanding / collapsing folders. Otherwise it destroys editor performance. The Editor (4.18 iirc) was supposed to remember preferences and stop expanding folders, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

                      Regardless, there's an added reason for an 'update Tickbox' to kill off the listbox, its for when you're also testing in PIE etc. Overall, Epic need to nail user preferences for this box, and stop overriding user prefs. Things are worsened by UE4's use of GroupActors as a separate Toplevel construct. If grouped actors already belong to the same group / sub-folder, why aren't those same GroupActors stored in the same sub-folder??? It just adds to the mess imho...

                      But hey, everyone has grievances... Its a bit like having to learn radically different gamepad / keyboard controls for identical games. I have two pet hates: The max camera speed is skewed in favor of slow, whereas in massive levels, you need a camera speed that goes to 'eleven'. Also unlike UDK, there's seemingly no way to hold and drag an actor in the scene to the outer edges of the world. But hey, first world problems and all that...

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                        #12
                        The Outliner feedback is valid, and I can add to that the collapsing of Content Browser folders when a BP is first loaded.
                        Last edited by DamirH; 03-13-2018, 10:20 AM.

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                          #13
                          Im not sure why all the Gizmos dont flip quadrants like the rotation one, I always thought thatd be much better. Max does it with the scale one but not the transform.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by BrUnO XaVIeR View Post
                            You have to save your editor preferences as default for them to persist across projects.
                            Yeah. My bad. I though people who complaining about default settings would save them as defaults...

                            Originally posted by William K View Post
                            Also the point was to illustrate that it should be the default by design
                            I prefer it the way it is now.

                            Originally posted by William K View Post
                            simple scene everytime there's either a simple particle system or material editor open in the second monitor
                            This issue also related to particular setup. It may be caused by not properly assigned GPU driver that taking control of rendering. i.e. when you have Intel HD enabled it could drive one of the monitors so, when ue4 has viewport there it may switch on that GPU.

                            Originally posted by William K View Post
                            Outliner has a mind of its own constantly expanding folders, unhiding objects
                            Outliner has bugs for eternity, and Epic constantly fixing them again and again.
                            To save states of visibility you have to use submenu Visibility > Show/Hide selected at startup. Or use Layers.

                            Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                            Im not sure why all the Gizmos dont flip quadrants like the rotation one, I always thought thatd be much better. Max does it with the scale one but not the transform.
                            Cause you can't flip an arrow so it still point the same direction? As for scale, yeah, would be nice.

                            So far best gizmos I've seen were in TrueSpace. I haven't used it for awhile tho, maybe it's just my "child's memories".

                            I've made a mod of camera movement for UE4, still not in PR state, but it's working in small scale and huge scenes (by using variable acceleration).


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