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Screen Space Ray Traced GI

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  • #16
    Originally posted by darthviper107 View Post

    We're still limited due to the engine having to support the regular Xbox One and PS4, Epic seems to be very reluctant to implement features that don't run on those systems and I feel like they wouldn't put in a full dynamic GI system unless they could abandon Lightmass entirely.
    Here's the thing:

    1 - whatever dynamic GI they put will almost always be inferior to a lightmass Bake. So they can't really abandon Lightmass.

    2 - By replacing Lightmass offline render engine from the old fashioned photon FG based to a brute force one, similar to Vray, cycles. then you remove the endless tweaking and light leaking issues while still improving on volume samples for the moving objects. I'm not sure why Epic didn't go this route before, i wonder if there is some limitation they may be dealing with regarding extracting light information from a FG based engine rather than a ray trace brute force one, although i don't see how this could be the case.

    In a perfect world both systems can work well together and open world devs would be happy with GI while the rest of us who want to control their lights and still not deal with lightmass would be happy with a brute force solution.

    I can see lightmass render engine improving before dynamic GI is introduced. Maybe make a deal with Vray or Cycles folks wouldn't be a bad idea.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by William K View Post
      Maybe make a deal with Vray or Cycles folks wouldn't be a bad idea.
      VRay is coming to engine, but only for visualization purpose AFAIK. Make a scene, capture screenshot, done
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      • #18
        How do things contribute to GI that are not rendered (Occlusion Culling, Frustum Culling)?

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        • #19
          How can screen space GI even work at all? Imagine there's a bright white wall behind your player, it wouldn't know about it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Zeblote View Post
            How can screen space GI even work at all? Imagine there's a bright white wall behind your player, it wouldn't know about it.
            Look, we both know there's a bright white wall behind us despite not looking at it. Computers process logical data.
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            • #21
              Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post

              Look, we both know there's a bright white wall behind us despite not looking at it. Computers process logical data.
              If it knows about the world, then it's not a screen space effect, is it? I'm kinda confused here.

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              • #22
                The ray tracing isn't screen-space based.
                But all the render data processing is.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Zeblote View Post
                  How can screen space GI even work at all? Imagine there's a bright white wall behind your player, it wouldn't know about it.
                  They're essentially using a souped-up form of SSAO to scale and bend the contribution from environment probes, which accounts for the bright wall. The occlusion varies depending on the orientation of the camera, but at least the deficiencies are subtle in the Superposition demo.

                  I'd hesitate to call this GI, but it shows what you can do with dynamic bent normals.

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                  • #24
                    @Zeblote, JK.

                    @BrUnO XaVIeR, You'd actually replace your gpu by a newer, stronger one regardless of it's life time. Don't worry too much about it. Dynamic GI in cryengine cost less than volumetric fog in UE4 at cinematic settings. LPVs were used back in 2005-2007, dynamic GI has tremendously improved since then. It's just that engine devs don't focus on it as deserved.
                    Last edited by Maximum-Dev; 11-14-2017, 08:17 PM.
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                    • #25
                      For comments on most of the scene being static, that is not true. Partway in the video nearly every object is dynamic and contributing to the calculation of GI everywhere. You don't need the walls to collapse as well to be sold on the idea that this is dynamic GI: the cost of running this effect full screen on a GTX 1070 in full HD on middle setting is 1.6 ms. This is totally feasible in 60 FPS on present tech. The Xbox One X is now current gen, not the old Xbox One.

                      As for artifacts, the noise issue was resolved through blue noise + denoise filters and upsampling. I'm not sure if the raytrace tests against polygons or is limited to objects on the screen in screenspace, but as it stands this technique seems the easiest to implement in UE4's current rendering pipeline, which already includes G-buffers and screenspace post processing. And white it requires some heft to work really well, it's still scalable down to the Xbox One X, which for all intents and purposes should be considered a "current gen console."

                      If Epic can attempt DFGI as an experimental feature, sure as heck they can try implementing this as a beta feature!
                      Last edited by mariomguy; 11-14-2017, 10:07 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post
                        @BrUnO XaVIeR, You'd actually replace your gpu by a newer, stronger one regardless of it's life time. Don't worry too much about it. Dynamic GI in cryengine cost less than volumetric fog in UE4 at cinematic settings. LPVs were used back in 2005-2007, dynamic GI has tremendously improved since then. It's just that engine devs don't focus on it as deserved.

                        lol, I'm talking about this; thanks, but no, thanks:

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mariomguy View Post
                          For comments on most of the scene being static, that is not true. Partway in the video nearly every object is dynamic and contributing to the calculation of GI everywhere. You don't need the walls to collapse as well to be sold on the idea that this is dynamic GI: the cost of running this effect full screen on a GTX 1070 in full HD on middle setting...

                          If Epic can attempt DFGI as an experimental feature, sure as heck they can try implementing this as a beta feature!
                          Sure If it works why not, however by 'Static' I mean mostly environments and indoor scenes, I'd like to see examples of characters and animation. Close to medium distance with GI running on moving hair, skin as well as fast/slow animated movements of body then i'll be happier : ).

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                          • #28
                            BrUnO XaVIeR, you realize this effect does not just heat up GPUs to 81 degrees Celsius outside of normal parameters, right? If you're going to keep harping the same note, you should know that it's not correct or constructive. Do you have anything else to add to the conversation?

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                            • #29
                              Sure If it works why not, however by 'Static' I mean mostly environments and indoor scenes, I'd like to see examples of characters and animation. Close to medium distance with GI running on moving hair, skin as well as fast/slow animated movements of body then i'll be happier : ).
                              Ah. It would be nice to see what it would look like on a character, but according to the developers it's close to the appearance of bent normals.

                              https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest...entNormalMaps/

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                              • #30
                                Well, stop quoting me and tagging me in this topic would help to keep me away... don't you think?
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