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Sharp decline in Official Responses from Epic throughout the community.

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  • Sharp decline in Official Responses from Epic throughout the community.

    So, this is definitely 100% my opinion. I have no facts sadly to base this upon, just a gut feeling and just looking at the overall responses that I see (or don't) over at Answerhub.

    Obviously if you all have a way to look at the overall number of Bug Reports that have been reported and comparing that to how many official responses there were, I bet you'd see something similar.

    I have a Facebook post/poll going on as well as a Twitter tweet. There's been a lot discussion about this over on the Unreal Slackers discord chat as well lately. The community is awesome, and luckily we have a lot of intelligent folks out there that can help (I have helped many myself), but there are some things that the community can't do, and Epic needs to step up their game. Especially when it come to logging Bug Reports (even more so when they have reproducible steps)

    IF the lack of communication (i.e. blatantly ignoring posts) is indeed that reproducible steps are not up to standards for Epic, then perhaps creating a template for Bug Reporting is in order.

    Regardless, there needs to be a way to ensure that all bug reports are being looked at. Even if it's like, "Yo, I can't do anything without Repro Steps, but I'll keep an eye on this"

    Now, for the forums and "Feedback for Epic", if Epic is not going to respond to anything written here, what is the point of this section then?

    Thank you for your time!





    11/02/2017 Summary:

    Not much has changed in regards to the forums activity, although we did receive some valuable feedback from an Epic engineer (DanielW) down below, which is much appreciated. I have noticed a slight increase in Answerhub presence. A few new faces (new contractors?). Hopefully we will see more of an increased presence throughout the community as time goes on. We're hitting MegaJam, so after the holidays, we'll see if we're back to square one or not.

    If you have issues with Documentation, use my thread on there or just start your own thread under Documentation Feedback please. Thanks!

    P.S. Give the community monthly #ue4jam again







    Last edited by VictorBurgos; 11-02-2017, 12:18 PM.

  • replied
    Originally posted by VictorBurgos View Post
    The issue with Google sometimes is being able to get the right terms into the search to bring up what you want. I would like to think that most devs knew how to Google and tried to before posting on AH, and so that should be the assumption on your end as well. I know for a fact that even when you start typing in the Title into an AH post, when it brings up "relevant" posts, that 90% of the time it's not related to it at all. I'm pretty sure it's just using keywords in its algorithm.
    Just reading through this post now and well, apart from the fact that support threads shouldnt be based on whats hottest as priority they should be assigned via a better metric not design through popularity contest...

    Anyway onto Google and search, I have noticed lately Google search has been failing me returning worse results and seems to prefer older pages, that isnt inherently bad but in the world of software engineering a post from 2007, 2010 or even 2014 could be a lifetime ago in terms of the API. This is compounded by the Unreal Engine API documentation not being as easily searchable on this site or through Google anymore resulting in alot more scavenging.

    I think the onus is on Epic to provide a good Unreal Engine related search there even though I do appreciate DanielW comments and agree wholeheartedly. I dont post much on Answerhub in the way of questions because I dont feel like its worth my time, as with Epic the flipside is explaining things out in a way Epic "gets it" takes too long, most of the time longer than to fix the issue (or work around it). kamrann puts it nicely and I do mirror the sentiment of apathy and is the core reason Im responding to this thread in such a tardy manner.

    Originally posted by junfanbl View Post
    I think a paid support option would be nice. If you are a serious developer, and not just a hobbyist, you would likely take advantage of that. That would also encourage people to do there own research so they can save money instead of spamming the forums and AnswerHub. Otherwise, when you are stumped, you pay. I think that is a good idea. I know that is what Crytek is currently doing and I have been taking advantage of that. It's rather nice actually. You get to talk to the staff about any issues you are having. Which for that engine is even more appropriate.
    Originally posted by teak421 View Post

    In addition to what you suggest above, how about documentation on the level of QT. Can you imagine how many questions would be resolved with outstanding documentation? (with examples, and the why).

    teak
    I agree with these thoughts, I was willing to pay for my UE4 subscription even though I had free years of usage. I know that quality and support costs money and was willing to back Epic in the same way they backed me, I feel as though the engine and support has suffered in the realm of the free model but I can understand why Epic had to have some sort of Free version, I just dont see why it had to be at such a great cost.

    Originally posted by John Alcatraz View Post
    That didn't seem to happen unfortunately, and I really wonder why. I wish Epic would be more of an Elon-Musk-kind-of-company that would be growing at 50-100% every year (in terms of employees), and I thought the financials would actually allow that due to so many successful UE4 games being released now. Wikipedia still says Epic has 250 employees (maybe 400 now?) vs Unity Technologies with 1500 employees, and Unity isn't even working on any games. How should Epic keep its lead with such a huge difference in number of employees? I want Epic to be successful of course, especially since I don't plan to ever switch engines from UE4 to anything else.
    I have a similar view of Epic with their games, while I appreciate the engine is battle tested by them themselves I feel as though the focus on community has shifted because Epic Games needs the support from Epic Engine to get to where it needs to be, this takes time out of the engine and its support, also features that might not be inline with any of Epics current projects. I do realize we gain features from those projects but I dont believe those wouldnt have happened without Epics games as the R&D still happens for the engine it just wouldnt be on the game branch.


    This post is already bordering on too long so I'll try to sum up, Epics help and feedback is greatly appreciated but I believe everyone is commenting here because they want to, that it costs us all our time and we can all be valuable contributors to the engines development as proven through the communities support of Epic. If this is to work it has to work both ways and for those of us with technical questions outside of the reach of the general community we need some sort of direct path, one that any random who signs up for an Epic account cant take (make forum badges mean something perhaps?).

    Bugs of all levels need to be dealt with not just the top of the pile stability issues, the engine has many instances of work arounds purely based on long standing bugs and/or bugs that are just largely ignored, there are also long standing feature requests for the gameplay framework that get passed over for the focus on AR or ArchViz. I know Epic does their best and have limited time but maybe thats the issue, Epic needs more time, time we dont have to spend waiting.

    Thanks,

    Daniel Batten
    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 11-20-2017, 11:40 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by M3NTH0S View Post


    Is there any chance Epic could implement a feedback system like unity where community votes out most urgent bugs and most important features? but this would be pointless if epic doesnt actually try to fix or implement any of those.
    The unity community seems more vibrant and active and closer to the users, epic feels like it wants to keep the distance, which results in quite a pale community especially around these forums.
    There is something: https://issues.unrealengine.com/ -- Not sure how the votes actually impact the selection of which bugs to work on though...???

    teak

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  • replied
    ive actually started to get some responses lately with people willing to help!

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  • replied
    There's a pretty critical bug in GNOME on multiple monitors that I wrote up here:

    https://answers.unrealengine.com/que...or-on-dua.html

    and it would be nice to hear back on whether or not Epic got around to testing it on their end yet. If they're unable to reproduce and need logs to determine what's different about my machine, I'd be happy to provide those.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    videshi Initial posts on the forum are need to be approved by a moderator.
    Simple spam prevent method, but it is subject to moderators having weekends and holidays :P

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    There are so many problems with Unreal. I came here to post a bug that I've been experiencing, wrote out a long explanations, and posted it only to discover that... I can't post new topics on this forum. They just... Don't appear.
    So I had to write support so that I can get support for the support forums... Fingers crossed this post I'm writing right now actually appears.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by M3NTH0S View Post
    The unity community seems more vibrant and active and closer to the users, epic feels like it wants to keep the distance, which results in quite a pale community especially around these forums.
    This wasn't actually the case prior to ~4.14. Early on I felt that UE4 devs and community were a way above Unity community. Now things have changed perhaps (I don't track Unity stuff anymore). At least it's definitely not the same as it used to be on the forums and on Discord. Devolution has happened.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Amanda.Bott View Post
    kjustynski
    We, Community, pull the top voted bugs into a report and send that out internally to call attention to them. While those aren't guaranteed to be fixed, it does increase the likelihood eyes will be on it. Though I do understand how that could make the votes feel insignificant.

    Is there any chance Epic could implement a feedback system like unity where community votes out most urgent bugs and most important features? but this would be pointless if epic doesnt actually try to fix or implement any of those.
    The unity community seems more vibrant and active and closer to the users, epic feels like it wants to keep the distance, which results in quite a pale community especially around these forums.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    The biggest problem isn't even that most voted points aren't realized, it's understandable that not everything can be done - even though the voting can just be turned off then. The biggest problem is that some bugs and requests are completely ignored for years, even though the community keeps mentioning it in the forum. And that there isn't even a single reply from Epic.

    Honestly it makes you feel like as a community you don't matter.

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  • replied
    kjustynski
    We, Community, pull the top voted bugs into a report and send that out internally to call attention to them. While those aren't guaranteed to be fixed, it does increase the likelihood eyes will be on it. Though I do understand how that could make the votes feel insignificant.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Thanks for this post, greatly appreciated!

    Originally posted by Amanda.Bott View Post
    We absolutely encourage you to utilize the voting systems, for both AnswerHub and on Issues, to help raise visibility for issues that have the most impact on the community at large. This helps us further prioritize bugs and questions, and weigh these against other internal needs.
    Well, the only problem is that nobody cares for most of the most voted issues
    Of course it will never be exactly like that developers fixes the most voted issues first. It's rarely the most efficient tactics for software programmer. I fully understand that.

    But sadly we're waiting years for fixing the most voted issues. In every category.
    178 votes for finally making directional light working with orthographic camera. It's there for 2.5 years, nothing happens. Nobody cares.
    66 votes for fixing point and spot lights, they don't work with ortho camera for a year. Nobody cares.
    https://issues.unrealengine.com/issu...nt=&sort=votes

    The most voted issues in Blueprint category are my good old friends. They're always there, waiting a long time
    https://issues.unrealengine.com/issu...int&sort=votes

    To be fair, few "popular" issues have been fixed in recent releases
    And of course engineers fix a lot of bugs every month. Although most of them have 0 votes.

    Everybody would be happy if this situation would change. Seriously, it would be awesome if you'd fix just one the most voted issue in every major category, every release
    Last edited by Doctor Ergot; 11-15-2017, 08:33 AM.

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  • replied
    Amanda.Bott while you're at it, please make Epic consider implementing a Stack Exchange hub and ditch AnswerHub software, please:

    https://www.stackoverflowbusiness.com/enterprise

    Would be a huge HUGE improvement over current state of AnswerHub.

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  • replied
    Hey folks,

    I wanted to chime in and hopefully address some of your concerns on a number of a different fronts.

    AnswerHub & Bug Reports
    AnswerHub is a community-run support site where we encourage UE4 developers to support each other by providing practical solutions for hurdles encountered during development. We’ve spent time on the site in the past helping out as we can, but our primary activity there is to work through bug reports found by the community, as that is where they’re currently logged.

    UDN is a private channel for teams with custom license agreement terms with Epic, and it is used as the primary support path for those developers. Although many issues and requests that affect everyone will appear on both AnswerHub and UDN, there is a bias towards UDN as Epic must provide direct support there as part of those agreements. The good news is that many fixes for issues found by UDN users make their way into binary releases before they’re plaguing too many other people.

    UDN is not our only focus, of course. We absolutely encourage you to utilize the voting systems, for both AnswerHub and on Issues, to help raise visibility for issues that have the most impact on the community at large. This helps us further prioritize bugs and questions, and weigh these against other internal needs.

    All stability issues and bugs are taken seriously by the engine team. Your feedback, especially during the preview releases, is invaluable. We try to fix as many bugs and quality of life issues as we can pre-release, and then if we miss anything significant, we work to address that in hotfixes as quickly as possible. We aim for a balance between fixing bugs, improving usability and adding new features.

    Often times, bugs that are reported are more like feature requests. What may appear to be a bug is simply how something was designed. We have to take into account the engineers involved and the technical tradeoffs to implement such items and prioritize accordingly.

    We understand that the current process is not ideal, so we are investigating options for improving the bug reporting process, such as a template or form. This is very much in the research stage, but I wanted to let you know it’s something we’re working on.

    Documentation
    We are soon going to be rolling out new processes with our documentation that will improve your access to more up-to-date information. Hopefully this will help alleviate some of the strain on AnswerHub.
    Jeff has posted details over here.
    (Please post any doc related comments or questions over there!)

    Forum / Feedback for Epic Thread
    Community and engine folks alike regularly check the forums, but again, the dev teams are always having to prioritize their efforts. I'll work on taking the time to make sure you see us here, even if it's an "I don't know" or "let me look into that for you,” and help point folks back your way where possible.

    We're also in the process of growing our community team, so that we can have more eyes and ears looking out for you, across all our sites. Please know that we’re still fighting for you, even if you don’t always hear from us.

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  • replied
    Well, all I have to say, since I just finished up the MegaJam playthru stream is that my GameJam feedback wasn't given much consideration in the four months since I first proposed it:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.8ujzahfgk2p1

    Only thing they took were 3/4th of my submission form idea.

    Leave a comment:

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