Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bugs: Back Logged vs Fixing

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by Nick Darnell View Post
    A coin flip would be so much easier.

    There's very little in the way of policy. It's up to each team lead / system owner what they feel should be backlogged. Basically - it all comes down to, what do you think you will reasonably get to and what do you think is a priority. If it's not - then backlog it. We have finite resources and can't fix everything. So things like crashes we can reproduce, regressions, problems with new systems are examples of things we try to fix ASAP. Problems with older systems, that have been there forever that have known workarounds, or would just be really really hard to fix right now without a lot more resources, tend to get backlogged until an opportune time presents itself to tackle that issue.

    Which for me is where I take into account votes for items, e.g. https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-4659, was backlogged as of about a week ago. It had been backlogged for probably about 1.5 years Why? Well - we knew that the render transform stuff was going to have limitations with the clipping system in Slate, and we knew that fixing that meant completely redoing Slates clipping system and changing the default behavior. This would of course break all existing customized uses of Slates clipping system, so big nasty hairy problem. There were more important things to tackle at the time with UMG and Slate, so that issue was backlogged.

    I removed it from the backlog about a week ago, because I finally had a some time to work on redoing Slates clipping system, and had some good ideas on how to do it. Still, as expected it's a really difficult problem - I have over 200 files checked out right now to make this change,.

    We simply can't fix everything, so it comes down a judgement call. Additionally if we don't touch a bug within 6 months, a script automatically backlogs it, unless someone touches the bug, and resets the clock.
    Looking at issues,

    Highest voted "Fixed" bug: 51 votes.
    Highest voted "Backlogged" bug: 78 Votes.

    Highest voted "Fixed" (Added) feature request: 62 votes.
    Highest voted "Backlogged" feature request: 74 votes.

    If we go on like that, Backlogged bugs and feature requests have usually double times more votes on them. It doesn't seem logical to say every single time community needed something it's been a nasty hairy issue for Epic to care. Seems more like, Community needed it but Epic didn't so it was backlogged because we only dedicate more resources to fixing nasty hairy issues when it benefits Epic Games.

    Originally posted by Syed View Post
    there are lots of reasons of why things are not as they may seem..
    Yes. Like saying you care about community while you don't.
    They've made millions of dollars from only a couple indie UE4 titles yet those games suffer tremendous amount of negative reviews because Epic isn't adding the proper tools for them and fixing critical bugs in return of the millions of dollars they're getting from them. Spending a fraction of that profit on actually addressing community's issues could make everyone happy instead of blaming lack of resources all the time..
    Last edited by Maximum-Dev; 05-01-2017, 03:33 PM.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
      Sales figures of games released using Unreal Engine 4, the prices of those games, and the 5% revenue that Epic takes. Which other games using UE4 have sold as much as Ark? PU: B is the number 1 selling game on Steam for the past month and is the second highest streamed game on Twitch right now. Those numbers are taken straight from the Steam API and Epic's website.

      There's also been false positives by staff marking bugs as being fixed only for the issues to persist. This also needs to be addressed. We also need to have a conversation about how comfortable the community should be working with a person who repeatedly displays an incapability of understanding bugs presented to him, in spite the of proof attached. Is there any accountability for such staff?
      Don't get me wrong I agree with you on bugs and how this matter is handled. I am not happy about it because many of those bugs impact my professional and hobby project.
      I just think you should not bring arguments like "I checked on SteamDB and PUB sold 1.7mill units! EPIC must be rich!". Because you have no clue about money Epic makes from licenses sold to AAA studios, money from their own titles and other revenue streams we have no clue about.

      Let's see how this topic evolves when everybody is back im the office and they have a chance ( ) to respond.

      EDIT: Well Nick already did. So let's just see how this evolves in the future
      Last edited by vebski; 05-01-2017, 03:34 PM.
      www.dawidniemiec.com

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by vebski View Post
        Don't get me wrong I agree with you on bugs and how this matter is handled. I am not happy about it because many of those bugs impact my professional and hobby project.
        I just think you should not bring arguments like "I checked on SteamDB and PUB sold 1.7mill units! EPIC must be rich!". Because you have no clue about money Epic makes from licenses sold to AAA studios, money from their own titles and other revenue streams we have no clue about.

        Let's see how this topic evolves when everybody is back im the office and they have a chance ( ) to respond.
        The issue isn't that Epic is rich. It's how revenue generated from UE4 is invested back into the engine, specifically whether such revenue prioritizes how bugfixes are determined. If not, should they be? The perspective I'm taking is whether Epic should nurture a developer ecosystem that pays back into itself by focusing more, not exclusively, on the needs of those developers that bring in revenue for Epic. This ecosystem in turn would benefit all of us because, as we make similar games as those other developers, we can bring in more revenue for Epic by releasing more stable products.

        If you disgaree, I respect your opinion (much love and respect). But to me it seems that progress on UE4 has recently been scatterbrained and this could help bring the company a bit more focus.
        Last edited by ZenDavis; 05-01-2017, 03:42 PM.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by vebski View Post
          ...I just think you should not bring arguments like "I checked on SteamDB and PUB sold 1.7mill units! EPIC must be rich!". Because you have no clue about money Epic makes from licenses sold to AAA studios, money from their own titles and other revenue streams we have no clue about.
          Actually we do.
          http://kotaku.com/epics-co-founder-h...est-1788725152
          If they have $15 million dollars to save land, they have enough money to solve a few engine bugs.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post
            Actually we do.
            http://kotaku.com/epics-co-founder-h...est-1788725152
            If they have $15 million dollars to save land, they have enough money to solve a few engine bugs.
            I am sorry but how Tim spending his OWN money has anything to do with Epic Games? (for me he can spend all the money he has on private land, good for him)
            You do know Epic Games is a company driven by a board, and investors to respond to?

            EDIT: I will just stop responding, because topic about bugs turned into salt-fest with argument of money which brings no solution to the original issue.
            www.dawidniemiec.com

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by vebski View Post
              I am sorry but how Tim spending his OWN money has anything to do with Epic Games? (for me he can spend all the money he has on private land, good for him)
              You do know Epic Games is a company driven by a board, and investors to respond to?
              So you're saying the company and the board altogether might have less money than what Tim spends on land as if he's buying an ice cream so they might not be able to afford fixing a few engine bugs or adding requested tools and things like that. Okay...
              Last edited by Maximum-Dev; 05-01-2017, 04:02 PM.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post
                So you're saying the company and the board altogether might have less money than what Tim spends on land as if he's buying an ice cream so they might not be able to afford fixing a few engine bugs or adding requested tools and things like that. Okay...
                I think there's a difference between developers bringing in revenue into Epic Games and a forest. Last time I checked that forest didn't bring in revenue for Epic games or need bugfixes. But the developers bringing in revenue for Epic games do need bugfixes and as such the argument becomes if Epic used that revenue as a matter of priortizing bugfixes, they would kill two birds with one stone.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
                  I think there's a difference between developers bringing in revenue into Epic Games and a forest. Last time I checked that forest didn't bring in revenue for Epic games or need bugfixes.
                  Please stop making personal attacks.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by muchcharles View Post
                    Please stop making personal attacks.
                    You misunderstand me. I am arguing what Tim Sweeney purchases with his personal money has nothing to do with prioritizing bugfixes. I disagreed with Maximum-Dev. I apologize if there was a personal attack in there but I don't see it.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by muchcharles View Post
                      Please stop making personal attacks.
                      His point is not necessarily an attack. Considering a few games have been released and have generated very large profits for Epic and aren't receiving much attention it's a bit concerning as our projects too, will come out and generate some profits for Epic and we'll need better support from them otherwise our communities blame us and we'd have a lot to lose, not Epic.
                      If Epic doesn't want to invest anything back into helping us that's fine, I can live with that. But that's not "We succeed if you succeed".

                      -Sorry for voicing my concerns.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
                        You misunderstand me.
                        Ah sorry about that, should have been @ Maximum-Dev.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by muchcharles View Post
                          Ah sorry about that, should have been @ Maximum-Dev.
                          It's all good, bro.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by vebski View Post
                            critical bugs like traces not registering hits on landscape
                            Is this in reference to UE-11871? That should be resolved in 4.16, just wanted to check there wasn't another issue we were unaware of.
                            Lead Programmer - UE4 Animation/Physics/Audio Team - Epic Games
                            Twitter: @EpicJamesG

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by JamesG View Post
                              Is this in reference to UE-11871? That should be resolved in 4.16, just wanted to check there wasn't another issue we were unaware of.
                              I had no idea that was a bug! On Issues that's marked as Unable to Reproduce - but I do actually have a reliable Repro for that in my game if that's useful now (I'll check 4.16 first)

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Note that 'Unable to Reproduce' in this case may just mean it was fixed by some other change, and so was not able to be repro'd in the version where it was tested. Would be interested to know if your case is fixed in 4.16 though!
                                Lead Programmer - UE4 Animation/Physics/Audio Team - Epic Games
                                Twitter: @EpicJamesG

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X