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  • replied
    I'm gonna bump this because I still think that the shadowing tech is rather poor. The additional biasing controls are very helpful and needed but filtering is poor imo. There is the other filter method available using r.shadow.filtermethod 1 (or something like that) but it seems to be pretty broken at the moment. Are there any plans on improving shadow map filtering? I've been replaying a lot of witcher 3 currently and the shadowing tech in that game is way ahead of what UE 4 has currently, the sun rotates smoothly and there's pretty much no visible shimmering or anything going on.

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  • replied
    I've tried CryEngine, and though it is definitely more accessible as far as the docs and functionality goes, it has a major issue on my computer where the auto-generated ocean displays with red contour lines on its surface. I checked a ton of things, and went in the appropriate docs to see if there's a setting that accounts for it, but to no avail. It's really interesting that these glaring issues occur at the start of using an engine, rather than well into it. Are the engine developers only testing on the computers they made the engine in? I would think such bugs / errors / issues would be removed before deploying each new version.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by II_ADN_II View Post

    Thats not correct. The shadow acne is a very known issue of shadowmaps, and most of engines provide very well known solutions (like slope bias) already integrated. Its not neccesary to "hide them with props" as they are already solved for the most part. Popular engines such as unity or cryengine doesnt have issues with shadow acne except very exteme cases. Its a shame that a very popular engine as unreal to have this critical ancient problems.Even despite dynamic lighting having more and more importance every year.

    Its not a secret that UE was never good with dynamic lighting, as it was made with baked lighting in mind (thing that does extremely well). In the late years of UE3 we got very basic dynamic lighting that work very well at the time with the baked one. Right now, after all this years with UE4, Epic still treat dynamic lighting without the importance it should have. And this is clear by the lack of optimization and the basic problems of shadowmaps such as the one in this thread, wich is 3 years old, and only very recently a small and quick made fix was proposed.

    Thanks for the extra information. When I mentioned about hiding acne with props, I was mentioning games based on UE2.5 and UE3 which I was aware of and that uses large scale terrains, since most of them are MMOs. I saw acne present in game titles using CryEngine, but then I can't say if that was just lack of polishing or an issue which couldn't be workarounded.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by NilsonLima View Post

    It is not a problem unique in Unreal Engine, it is present on different game engines. You won't see them showing up at large in game titles because their art direction took measures to hide these artifacts, being with foliage, rocks, other meshes. Not every game can rely on tricks like these.
    Thats not correct. The shadow acne is a very known issue of shadowmaps, and most of engines provide very well known solutions (like slope bias) already integrated. Its not neccesary to "hide them with props" as they are already solved for the most part. Popular engines such as unity or cryengine doesnt have issues with shadow acne except very exteme cases. Its a shame that a very popular engine as unreal to have this critical ancient problems.Even despite dynamic lighting having more and more importance every year.

    Its not a secret that UE was never good with dynamic lighting, as it was made with baked lighting in mind (thing that does extremely well). In the late years of UE3 we got very basic dynamic lighting that work very well at the time with the baked one. Right now, after all this years with UE4, Epic still treat dynamic lighting without the importance it should have. And this is clear by the lack of optimization and the basic problems of shadowmaps such as the one in this thread, wich is 3 years old, and only very recently a small and quick made fix was proposed.


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  • replied
    Originally posted by preston42382 View Post
    I have shadow lines in surfaces of the platforms in the 3rd person shooter template level. I've tried a ton of potential workarounds, and adjusting settings, turning off and on various things, moving the directional light / tweaking its properties...and more. Not anything works! How is it games were made in Unreal Engine, whether this version or previous ones, with dynamic lighting and didn't have the shadow artefacts problems that are so frequently written about in the forums and AnswerHub?
    It is not a problem unique in Unreal Engine, it is present on different game engines. You won't see them showing up at large in game titles because their art direction took measures to hide these artifacts, being with foliage, rocks, other meshes. Not every game can rely on tricks like these.

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  • replied
    I have shadow lines in surfaces of the platforms in the 3rd person shooter template level. I've tried a ton of potential workarounds, and adjusting settings, turning off and on various things, moving the directional light / tweaking its properties...and more. Not anything works! How is it games were made in Unreal Engine, whether this version or previous ones, with dynamic lighting and didn't have the shadow artefacts problems that are so frequently written about in the forums and AnswerHub?

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  • replied
    Shouldnt the bias distribution be a constant? I mean, it should be dependent on bias and slope bias, but only related to those two. I feel like the value should be a specific value depending on those two values for the best image quality, not user dependent by default.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by BrUnO XaVIeR View Post

    pss.. Black Desert wasn't built on Unreal Engine.
    It's custom lib of tools, not a "engine" at all.
    Whoops... you're right. Someone fed me some bad information in the past, it seems.

    I'll leave the post up perhaps to show that the problem is indeed pervasive.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by preston42382 View Post
    Is ray tracing only supported on AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards? It seems whenever I change my project settings by enabling ray tracing, along with Compute SkinCache, the restart that's required gets to a certain point and crashes or hangs. Every project I've enabled ray tracing for I can no longer open because the loader crashes before opening the level. And I barely have anything in the levels besides a few applied materials, using both the 3rd person shooter template and an empty level w/ starter table/chairs/platforms.
    You need to consider asking this in another already existing thread, this is another topic, mentioning engine release and your hardware, gpu driver and windows release. As far as it is concerned, up to this date, only NVidia GPUs support raytracing, while AMD still lack its support. It requires specific gpu driver, windows release and UE4.22+ to see it.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by eobet View Post
    Funnily, I also noticed this in the Unreal Engine game Black Desert Online ..
    pss.. Black Desert wasn't built on Unreal Engine.
    It's custom lib of tools, not a "engine" at all.

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  • replied
    Is ray tracing only supported on AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards? It seems whenever I change my project settings by enabling ray tracing, along with Compute SkinCache, the restart that's required gets to a certain point and crashes or hangs. Every project I've enabled ray tracing for I can no longer open because the loader crashes before opening the level. And I barely have anything in the levels besides a few applied materials, using both the 3rd person shooter template and an empty level w/ starter table/chairs/platforms.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Charles.D2 View Post
    During the past weeks, we tried to address a few concerns raised in this thread regarding self-shadowing/shadow-acne.
    This is great news, because without knowing about this thread, I reported this with my work account and I don't think much was done (and we see the exact same thing in 4.24 still... we use Datasmith to import CAD models with no baked lighting).

    Funnily, I also noticed this in the game Black Desert Online:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	20191014_302999899.jpg Views:	95 Size:	319.6 KB ID:	1698924
    Last edited by eobet; 12-21-2019, 02:11 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Deathrey View Post
    There is no performance impact of setting it to any value.
    That's good to know!


    Originally posted by Deathrey View Post
    The rest of dealing with the issue lies within shadow and scene setup.
    Once again, if you have a procedural generated map, there is no real way of dealing with it (other than covering your ground with foliage, which isn't a solution). And if you want to make a game that plays in a desert for example (which is my case), or uses a low-poly style with no textures, you are pretty much screwed.

    Slope Bias helps a littlebit, but the issue still remains and even with slope bias cranked up to ten, you still have immersion breaking artefacts in your map, which are going to be very noticable to players.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by spacegojira View Post

    Thanks for the suggestion! Turning up Slope Bias to 10 (the maximum) removes most of the shadow artefacts, although it adds some artefacts at other locations. And I wonder what the performance impact of turning it this high is?
    There is no performance impact of setting it to any value.


    Originally posted by spacegojira View Post
    The problem is with procedural generated worlds, you can't know where to place those volumes. It's a shame that Slope Bias isn't a real solution to this problem.
    I doubt there is anything else meaningful, that could be done. The problem is universal to shadow mapping, but as of 4.24, Unreal does not feel capped in ways of dealing with it, compared to other rendering engines I've had a chance to work with. I'd add even more here, bias distribution adjustment ended up being better than I could expect. Being used to adjusting biases individually for splits, I gotta say that working with that slider speeds up your shadow setup with no takeaways.

    The rest of dealing with the issue lies within shadow and scene setup.

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  • replied
    The problem is with procedural generated worlds, you can't know where to place those volumes. It's a shame that Slope Bias isn't a real solution to this problem.

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