Level Design tools not quite fast enough, for solo level designers.

[CT007]

To be honest. I just opened up UE4 and tried to replicate what I saw in the first minute or so of the video (video A) you had posted, and everything he was doing, sliding a corner inwards, pulling it up down, transforming the shape, is exactly how the new tools in UE4 operate, I am not sure what was available in UDK (I used to use CryEngine back before this) but I think you should give the new BSP controls a try (to do so, create a box, whatever size, then in the mode panel go to "Geometry Editing Mode" and all of this is possible.

Give it a try!

Oh and I agree with Jacky here, 3ds max is definitely the way to go if you have the cash to spare...

Cool! Do you have a link to documents about the new BSP tools, per chance? I haven't gotten to use the engine yet, or seen the new tools.

[DotCam]

Have a look here for sure, goes over some details, if I find another one I will post some more links:

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest...hes/index.html

[CT007]

Minecraft is a game though. You could make a Minecraft like game but if you are talking about voxels then thats another story.

Btw, Maya feels stranger than Zbrush to me, and so does Blender and any other modeling app because i use 3ds Max. It's all about getting used to. And Epic is helping Blender out to make it more UE4 friendly.

Minecraft is a game, with a live voxel editor, I believe... But yes, voxels are the future, and static meshes will be going out the door as well as BSP eventually.

It's good that 3D apps are getting some more integration with games, but a bigger problem to me is that 3D apps need to be more universalized, by having the same file formats and tool terminology and hotkey presets and functions and such. I started with Unreal Ed(UE1), then Maya for 4-5 years, then modo, so I'm glad I got out of most of those sorts of technical problems fairly early on. =p

[SonKim]

In one of the twitch stream the UE4 developers mention they do want to improve the brush tools.

One thing I'd love to see in UE4 is something like the push/pull tool from SketchUp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOrfZM6nY-U and some nice align tool would be useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gicG_Y0GEM8 I dig the way this align tool is implemented exactly like more Adobe illustrator does it but in 3D.

[CT007]

Have a look here for sure, goes over some details, if I find another one I will post some more links:

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest...hes/index.html

That's what I'm talkin' about! Except, now I want to be able to bust out little hole/block details from the house, with a live BSP brush.


Here's one I found, not sure how much of the capabilities it shows overall though:

[DotCam]

See the "add" and "subtract" blocks? click them and they do what you'd expect!

[fighter5347]

Here's one I found, not sure how much of the capabilities it shows overall though:

It just covers some really basic stuff (was a requested tutorial that I have made for one of my subscribers ^^)

[CT007]

See the "add" and "subtract" blocks? click them and they do what you'd expect!

Yes, yes, but that's the whole point of my post; to have faster, more intuitive, paintbrush-like editing...and never having to click a button or perform a keyboard shortcut every time for each BSP edit

Example C(or anything from Cube/Cube 2) is a good real-world example/test of a detail-heavy "block" map, not easy with Unreal, made in ~2 hours:

[Jason Wanderer]

I'm just curious...
Does anyone think that Voxels will become the new big thing in the future replacing Static Meshes and BSP brushes?

I'm all for change in game development, but I have to say that's a pretty big jump considering most voxel-based games are pixelated at the moment.

~ Jason

[DotCam]

Yes, yes, but that's the whole point of my post; to have faster, more intuitive, paintbrush-like editing...and never having to click a button or perform a keyboard shortcut every time for each BSP edit

But aren't you clicking or performing a keyboard shortcut to do the same thing in the other 2 you have mentioned? you click and hold, push pull, release mouse button to do what you are asking in UE4, is that not easy enough?

[DotCam]

I'm just curious...
Does anyone think that Voxels will become the new big thing in the future replacing Static Meshes and BSP brushes?

I'm all for change in game development, but I have to say that's a pretty big jump considering most voxel-based games are pixelated at the moment.

~ Jason

There are 2 theories about this (possibly more), but I really don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever. There are many technologies in the past that were supposed to be the future, only to find it either a pipe dream or a tech that could have been the best if a new tech had not come out while it is in development and become the new thing.

I have heard the voxel wars many times over the years, but have yet to see any other major company come out and repeat Carmacks claims (let alone use it to make a game). So really it depends what happens, but even if it turns out great, there will always be other ways of doing it as well.

[CT007]

But aren't you clicking or performing a keyboard shortcut to do the same thing in the other 2 you have mentioned? you click and hold, push pull, release mouse button to do what you are asking in UE4, is that not easy enough?

Well, I'm fairy sure UE4's BSP tools can't operate quickly like I want, but all you need to do to add/delete blocks in voxel editors is right-click or left-click...in full screen single viewport...with no tool boxes open. I think in UE4, you still have to select a BSP brush before you can edit it, right? The entire level is just 'one big brush', in these other editors.

There are 2 theories about this (possibly more), but I really don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever. There are many technologies in the past that were supposed to be the future, only to find it either a pipe dream or a tech that could have been the best if a new tech had not come out while it is in development and become the new thing.

I have heard the voxel wars many times over the years, but have yet to see any other major company come out and repeat Carmacks claims (let alone use it to make a game). So really it depends what happens, but even if it turns out great, there will always be other ways of doing it as well.

You can't replace art and artists, but the idea is to replace the limitations of texture maps(heavy file sizes) and static meshes(limited poly counts) with procedural data. I don't see it happening any time soon either, but at least the voxel block games are going strong, and at least Carmack is/was trying to make it happen. I myself prefer BSP over blocks and static meshes, as you might be able to tell, heh.

[DotCam]

Well, I'm still not exactly sure if UE4's BSP tools can operate quickly like I want, but all you need to do to add/delete blocks in voxel editors is right-click or left-click...in full screen single viewport...with no tool boxes open. I think in UE4, you still have to select a BSP brush before you can edit it, right? The entire level is just 'one big brush', in these other editors.

It is one big level in UE4, it has a landscape mode instead to sculpt terrain, but you will be clicking and changing tools slightly more often than you do in those videos for BSP's. But again, it is **** close!
If a few more clicks is what is keeping you back, then use Cube2, but for all of the other things about this engine that make it so great, at minimum the pluses and minuses cancel each other out. I really think you should give it a try, you only need to pay $20, then cancel your subscription and keep using it forever (if you subscribe on a monthly basis you get all updates that come out, or you can pay another $20 six months later and download the latest version of the engine).

I really think you should try it out before judging it too much, as it really is easy to do. Plus landscape, it creates a flat plane mesh for terrain, which you can then use modeling brushes exactly like you do in mudbox, to sculpt the terrain as you'd like, so the only bsp's you would need are for walls and houses, and other above ground structures that you don't have a static mesh for.

[CT007]

It is one big level in UE4, it has a landscape mode instead to sculpt terrain, but you will be clicking and changing tools slightly more often than you do in those videos for BSP's. But again, it is **** close!
If a few more clicks is what is keeping you back, then use Cube2, but for all of the other things about this engine that make it so great, at minimum the pluses and minuses cancel each other out. I really think you should give it a try, you only need to pay $20, then cancel your subscription and keep using it forever (if you subscribe on a monthly basis you get all updates that come out, or you can pay another $20 six months later and download the latest version of the engine).

I really think you should try it out before judging it too much, as it really is easy to do. Plus landscape, it creates a flat plane mesh for terrain, which you can then use modeling brushes exactly like you do in mudbox, to sculpt the terrain as you'd like, so the only bsp's you would need are for walls and houses, and other above ground structures that you don't have a static mesh for.

Oh... So you get it forever for $20, and updates for more, I didn't know. Awesome...

The landscape tool doesn't look any different than previous terrain tools from UE2 and UE3. :\ If you could create auto-tessellated tunnels and vertical cliffs with it, and are not limited to the vertices of the initial landscape plane(if that's how it works), it would be better. I am thinking UE4 is rather overly complicated, though, especially for folk like me who just want to bash out simple levels quickly. :/

If someone could post a video of UE4 BSP editing as quickly/efficiently as possible, that would be great to see!

[mrnitro]

my problem...

I normally use Maya/Blender to model/uv , but I still find quite frustrating the process to import, position and add materials to the various meshes in UE4.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I don't see a way to just import a bunch of meshes, keep them grouped into a logical transform hierarchy (i.e. maya groups)
and move or assign materials to these groups quickly. I'm using fbx , and it creates one big mesh for each export with sub-elements (that are non movable or replaceable on the fly) that are not very easy to manage imho. Sometimes you want to assign materials to logical groups that are not based on sub-elements or single fbx imports... just as you normally do on most 3d packages...
if i'm missing some magic trick please enlighten me