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    Originally posted by Chosker View Post
    actually I have to agree a little with him.

    for me it's not about crashes, it's about partially working features and the way they are announced: "new feature: this!". coming from such a high end engine, to me it sounds like a new thing that's tested and ready for production (or at least completely usable) while half the time it's an "early access" to a feature
    a few examples:
    • Imposters came in 4.3 and to this day the 'billboard' part of the shader is not working (and the setup shown in the documentation varies from the one shown on some AnswerHub post). On top of that it came out as an "engine feature" while in fact it's a standalone project (meaning you need to move your assets back and forth, not practical) and the documentation didn't really match the workflow (so it was pretty much a tutorial, and a broken one)
    • Animation retargetting came on 4.4 with documentation that was matching 4.5 (and you couldn't really use it)
    • Media Playback and Capture came with 4.5. the release notes were saying "you can play streaming video on UI widgets and textured objects" which sounds very nice, while the forum topic states "The feature is not quite production ready yet" and shows that only the .wmv file format is supported.
    • Landscape Mountains came out as an official Marketplace asset to "showcase what you can do with the Landscape and foliage tools in Unreal Engine 4" while in fact the Landscape tool was pretty much only used to import content made in WorldMachine (which brings the underlying message that even they know their own Landscape tools are vastly inferior), and then many people found out the thing is so big you need 16 GB of RAM or else lightmass crashes if you try to build it

    other times it's just things that don't work (like SceneCapture actors still can't use PostProcess blendables), and don't get fixed until much time later (like a "Keep Simulation Changes" crash I had in April, and wasn't fixed until 4.3), or just don't get put enough effort to (something as basic as Translucency sorting is still as bad as engines from 10 years ago)
    lastly, every release breaks something in C++. like you say it' usually around 20 minutes to fix (thanks to Rama's usual notes), but nowadays most C++ tutorials are not even followable at all without a good number of visits to AnswerHub
    on top of that every new feature bloats the editor so it becomes increasingly slower (unlike the pre-4.0 betas)

    I didn't really come here to complain. I know development changes the software but a "just bear with it" attitude doesn't seem too apropriate here. yes it's a great piece of software, but it's still a piece of software that people are paying for.
    I love Unreal, I only think that Epic should slow down a bit and make the existing features faster, more solid and more stable, before moving on to the new features
    That's exactly what I'm talking about. Instability of software doesn't just mean that software crashes - that would be very simplistic and naive way of looking at it.
    Last edited by smallB; 10-23-2014, 01:14 PM.

    Comment


      @smallB - I don't want to get into this as I agree stability is something to strive for, but I want to point out 1 thing:

      You simply cannot compare a game engine to other software's definition of stability. No engine out there can in any way be compared to MS Word for example, as it needs to have "Open" code, where nearly everything can be changed to suit a specific developers needs. Many of the features are frameworks for dev's to expand on, and will never be a finished product.

      This is the reality of modern game engine's today, is it ideal for everyone? No, but at the same time it needs to cater to everyone as well.
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        Originally posted by smallB View Post
        Stability, stability, stability. Without it UE4 remains a toy not a tool.

        https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...835#post167835
        Yes, we'll talk on this today and how we're planning on emphasizing stability in upcoming releases.

        Comment


          Originally posted by DotCam View Post
          @smallB - I don't want to get into this as I agree stability is something to strive for, but I want to point out 1 thing:

          You simply cannot compare a game engine to other software's definition of stability. No engine out there can in any way be compared to MS Word for example, as it needs to have "Open" code, where nearly everything can be changed to suit a specific developers needs. Many of the features are frameworks for dev's to expand on, and will never be a finished product.

          This is the reality of modern game engine's today, is it ideal for everyone? No, but at the same time it needs to cater to everyone as well.
          ^

          What I have said few posts ago.

          I'd rather have model of UE4 right now, than I won't point fingers on you know who.
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          Comment


            I prefer features over stability. I the engine is not enough unsteady for do it this melodrama.

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              Originally posted by dokipen View Post
              Rather than put things on the cloud, it would be nice if when you crtl+c it saves the text necessary to generate that blueprint to the os clipboard. then you could copy it into a broswer/chat/email or save a text file somewhere. Then someone else can copy the text and past it into the eventgraph and be turned into nodes.
              It already works that way. :P

              The system the other poster was asking about was to make it easier to do the actual sharing, so that you don't have to manually go do a screenshot yourself, and also post the text code to pastebin or whatever. That part would be automatic (IIRC they were talking about a node parser, so that it would recreate the image of the node from the text code, rather than screenshot things, but same deal).

              But yeah you can absolutely just copy and paste the code to share it - when you copy/paste within the editor it's already putting the text code for the node into the clipboard.
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                I prefer stability over features, haha

                Still using 4.4 as its REALLY stable, and generally I'm a bit afraid of switching to new builds which could be less stable.
                Last edited by reok; 10-23-2014, 05:00 PM.
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                  Originally posted by reok View Post
                  I prefer stability over features, haha

                  Still using 4.4 as its REALLY stable, and generally I'm a bit afraid of switching to new builds which could be less stable.
                  I have had no issues with 4.5 at all, just the general "What they change?" stuff.
                  But i found 4.4 to be very unstable.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Venged View Post
                    I would like to see content examples expanded. For example, the Third person shooter example should include shooting and a melee move. This should be updated for BP and C++. Are there any plans to expand the basic demos?

                    Thanks,
                    I would like to echo this as well. In my honest opinion the templates that are given are more interactive demos than they are interactive mini games. I know not everyone that uses UE4 wants to make games, but right now it seems a but hard to understand on how get everything moving to make a fully functioning game. (Even with a very small scope.) Now the off road game that Epic put out is more like what I was thinking. (That feels like a game.)

                    I feel we need to have very sound examples the following in the templates:

                    1. Proxy art
                    2. Sound track
                    3. Game sounds
                    4. Particles
                    5. Item pick ups
                    6. Inventory systems
                    7. NPCs that are background elements and elements that you can interact with
                    8. Proper interface

                    So I feel many of these have been shown in some capacity in some way in many of the different examples we have, but they are very rarely all brought together to from little mini game examples. For me this would be more helpful than just say a car that drives around in a nondescript area.

                    Also lets look at the flying demo, we need examples of plane, helicopter, and hover craft.

                    For Driving, we need to see car, truck, front wheel, rear wheel, 3 wheel, and 2 wheel.

                    For a character, how do you set up motion tree so you can walk, run, sprint, crawl, jump, jump high, double jump, triple jump? How do you make a character fly? How do you set up special moves? How do you have a character hold something like a shield and use it for defense? How do you have a character use something like a sword and use it for offense.

                    How do you set up enemies or rivals in all the template types to build a competitive element?

                    So in many cases if I have some sort of starting point I can dissect it and then add to it to push it into what I want to make, but if there isn't a starting point it is very difficult for someone with more of my skill set (art content creation.) I am very excited about the blueprint system and I know how powerful it is but....that thing is a beast, and in many cases if I din't have someone specifically showing what nodes to hook together I would have no idea on how to get from point a to point b. Well....hope someone from Epic sees and hears this!
                    Last edited by NickZucc; 10-24-2014, 12:05 AM. Reason: trying to clarify a bit.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by benjamin.smith View Post
                      -- QUESTION --
                      Whatever happened to the plan to share snippets of and/or full Blueprints via multi-select than the engine generates a share-link and puts it into the (Epic) Cloud?
                      Originally posted by dokipen View Post
                      Rather than put things on the cloud, it would be nice if when you crtl+c it saves the text necessary to generate that blueprint to the os clipboard. then you could copy it into a broswer/chat/email or save a text file somewhere. Then someone else can copy the text and past it into the eventgraph and be turned into nodes.

                      This is how nuke ( vfx compositing software) works and is incredibly useful for sharing graphs.

                      Other things I would like to know are
                      - the future of paper 2d
                      - how is forward rendering for pixel depth sorting for translucent materials coming?
                      - c++/gameplay framework docs
                      - more compiling time speed increases please!
                      Originally posted by Lauren Ridge View Post
                      Hi dokipen! You should already be able to do this - if you select some nodes and copy them, then open a text editor and paste, you will get the text representation of those nodes for easy sharing.
                      To expand on my question further,
                      I was more referring to what was briefly discussed in the past by Epic Games staff via the forums and early Twitch streams regarding an easy way to distribute and visualize Blueprint snippets both internally and externally through the forums among other places the likes of a service similar to say gyazo.com

                      As Lauren Ridge mentioned there would always remain the option to share your full Blueprints of snippets there of through other means for those who have security concerns and/or are paranoid with storing data on the Cloud.

                      If you wanted to go one step further,
                      You could harness some of the HTML5 features and allow not only the rendering of Blueprints but a basic animated visual representation of a Blueprints nodes firing off, timers counting down, etc. So that you could get a better understanding for the flow of said Blueprint at a glance (this would be a great addition for those out of the office).



                      -- Further Suggestions --

                      I started I thread awhile back discussing the now implemented Blueprint Reroute Node and I thought I would voice some suggestions for improvement for said feature.

                      Since pictures are worth a thousand words, I guess GIF's are ten thousand here are just some of the shortcuts Blender has for their node editor

                      Lazy Connect



                      Lazy Mix

                      Merge

                      Batch change blend type / math operation

                      Change Mix Factor

                      Swap Links

                      Switch Node Type

                      Copy Settings

                      Add Reroutes to Outputs

                      Link Active to Selected

                      Detach Outputs



                      GIF source:
                      http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Ex...ficiency_Tools

                      Original post:
                      https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ns-general-use



                      EDIT: For those who are interested, I have reposted this question in the following thread https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...l=1#post168626 for further in-depth discussion.
                      Last edited by BenjaminDSmithy; 10-24-2014, 04:32 AM. Reason: Updated the footer of my post to include a link to a different forum thread for further in-depth discussion on the topic.
                      Regards,
                      Benjamin D. Smith

                      Founder & CEO | Binary Sword Pty Ltd
                      Currently working on: ODIN Tracker (UE4 Plugin)

                      Comment


                        I've had some frequent crashes in 4.5 when trying to call certain nodes in some blueprints sometimes. It's a real pain. 4.5 seems to be a lot less stable than 4.4, but the features makes it worth it. Just save a lot! I'd still of course prefer to not have to relaunch my game every 20 minutes (not an exaggeration) or copy nodes from other blueprints instead of simply calling them. Not to mention context sensitivity is kinda fubar this release. Why do I have to turn off context sensitivity to access get Actor Location?

                        In my opinion, Epic should focus on forward hybrid rendering, polishing UMG and minimising random crashes. Of course this is just my opinion
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                          Wow those blender node gifs are cool, I keep playing with but stay with C4D +100 for stuff like this in UE!

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                            Originally posted by smallB View Post
                            I wasn't talking about bugs. Every soft has bugs, something that big as UE4 will have bugs. This is not the point. So it is like you are talking out of your *** or you are reading with your ***, that you cannot understand what I'm talking about.
                            If you read https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...e-4-5-Released! you will see what changes are breaking and maybe you will understand what I'm on about.
                            So first you say that it's not about bugs, then you link the patch notes saying that changed are breaking stuff? That is pretty much what bugs are, I don't think they intended for the new features to break anything.


                            Originally posted by smallB View Post
                            Don't get me wrong. I love UE4, I love Epic, I have utmost respect for engineers working there and their skills. This isn't the point and I would never dream about insulting anybody.
                            Could have fooled me! Funny way of showing how much you respect the people that pour so much time and energy into a product only to have you call it a "toy" because you feel hurt when new features break stuff.


                            Originally posted by smallB View Post
                            The ONLY thing I'm saying is that UE4 at this stage is still very unstable, and I'm not talking about crashes, for the love of hell!
                            Then use another word, instability in softwares will by most be interpreted as something that causes a crash/fatal error.
                            If you think the quality of features is inconsistent then just say so, and preferably say what you would like them to change about it, instead of saying that the whole thing is unstable.
                            Why is it so hard for you to point towards the actual problem instead of moaning about the whole engine being bad?
                            It's so obvious that something hurt you and now you just randomly attack it out of spite instead of being constructive with your criticism, which could help improving it.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Sitrec View Post
                              S
                              Could have fooled me! Funny way of showing how much you respect the people that pour so much time and energy into a product only to have you call it a "toy" because you feel hurt when new features break stuff.
                              It seems to me that you are fooled very easily. But I suppose it's your problem not mine.
                              If you cannot understand the fact that software instability isn't just about crashes then we have nothing more to discuss about.

                              And yes, I repeat what I've said:
                              Without stability from release to release, meaning that I can open my projects from older version in newer version of engine, that I can compile my old code base in newer version of engine without any serious problems, without me opening newly released editor and looking for commands which I knew where they are in older versions but now they are not there, without me being able to open previously (last evening) saved file without crash ,without all those things UE4 at the stage it is is more like a toy and not like tool.
                              By saying that I DO NOT disrespect engineers working on it. Far from it. As I've said before I have the utmost respect for them. This does not change the fact that UE4 is at very unstable stage and very unpolished.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by smallB View Post
                                It seems to me that you are fooled very easily. But I suppose it's your problem not mine.
                                If you cannot understand the fact that software instability isn't just about crashes then we have nothing more to discuss about.
                                Then how come almost everyone that have been a part of this discussion in this thread said essentially the same thing as me?

                                Originally posted by smallB View Post
                                And yes, I repeat what I've said:
                                Without stability from release to release, meaning that I can open my projects from older version in newer version of engine, that I can compile my old code base in newer version of engine without any serious problems, without me opening newly released editor and looking for commands which I knew where they are in older versions but now they are not there, without me being able to open previously (last evening) saved file without crash ,without all those things UE4 at the stage it is is more like a toy and not like tool.
                                That might have something to do with how you work, our project have had very, very few similar problems and they were self inflicted.

                                Originally posted by smallB View Post
                                By saying that I DO NOT disrespect engineers working on it. Far from it. As I've said before I have the utmost respect for them. This does not change the fact that UE4 is at very unstable stage and very unpolished.
                                Saying that you respect someone doesn't change the fact that you are disrespectful to them.
                                Completely belittling the project they pour their life and soul into because you're hurt, isn't generally considered being respectful.

                                You sure like to complain but you're yet to provide much in the suggestions for Epic forum section, all I see is that you want other controls and for epic to make your weapons for you.
                                How hard is it to write something constructive about all these things you say makes the engine a toy?
                                Judging by all the moaning you've been doing in this thread, you should have tons of valuable input to share to help improving the engine.

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