[Twitch] 4.6 Roadmap - Oct. 23, 2014

[dokipen]

-- QUESTION --
Whatever happened to the plan to share snippets of and/or full Blueprints via multi-select than the engine generates a share-link and puts it into the (Epic) Cloud?

Rather than put things on the cloud, it would be nice if when you crtl+c it saves the text necessary to generate that blueprint to the os clipboard. then you could copy it into a broswer/chat/email or save a text file somewhere. Then someone else can copy the text and past it into the eventgraph and be turned into nodes.

This is how nuke ( vfx compositing software) works and is incredibly useful for sharing graphs.

Other things I would like to know are
- the future of paper 2d
- how is forward rendering for pixel depth sorting for translucent materials coming?
- c++/gameplay framework docs
- more compiling time speed increases please!

[Sitrec]

@McStryker
Hi, there must be some misunderstanding here.
Just to clarify few things:
1. I do not try to insult anybody, I do respect what Epic's engineers are doing and I really think they are great at it
2. Yes, I'm very, very new to game dev, but I'm not new to software development.
3. I do understand how priviledged we are in having access to such technology - I myself mentioned that on number of occasions.

OK, having said the above, this doesn't change the fact that UE4 is still at very unstable stage.
To me software (and after all UE4 is just a software of certain kind) which constantly crashes, cannot open previously (last evening) saved packages and what not is not stable.

This shouldn't be taken as an insult and I never meant it to be taken as such.

I also see world differently to you and for example to Rama guy. He is great and I admire him, but I cannot be happy all the time like he is (or it looks like it anyway). But even he got bit piised off with changes in UE4, so it just show you that everybody has his limits.

I also don't believe that being Politically Correct is a great way to be. In my world not everyone is doing great stuff, not everyone is great at everything they touch, not everything is beautiful and rosy, and as long as I'm able to express my opinion I will continue to do it, not to insult people, but in hope that somebody will get the message and will try to improve things.

I do love UE4 and the way Epic is trying to work with community. This does not change the fact that UE4 is still at very unstable stage. Would you agree with that?

And as for C# not being toy language? Sure, never said such thing, but it is definitely not for game dev at that level, yet you will find people who claim, that performance is not important (in game dev, you hear that) that C# provides higher abstraction than C++, that this that the other. And what? Am I supposed to just stand and say nothing? Such behavior (passiveness), was cause of first and second war. Stalinizm happened because of such behavior. I know here we are computer folks, and those examples are ... but you know I have broader interests than just computers, and knowing what happened and why in world we live in is great thing.

Another thing you mentioned about pouring heart into work. I believe most (if not everybody here) are doing exactly the same. This has two fold meaning:
1. I am pouring my heart into my game, and if after release this game will not be positively received, will not get good sales etc, surely you don't expect me to start posting on forum and wherever else: hey, guys, but I've put so much work into it and I've poured my heart into it, so surely you ought to like it and don't have any rights to critisize it, right? Wrong. If my game is a failure it is only my fault and nobody's else.

2. If I'm pouring my heart into my game and I'm working with unstable software, than I'm sorry but I cannot see it other way than that software is not good enough yet even though has a great potential. It does sabotages my work. Surely this isn't right and you wouldn't expect it from software, doesn't matter how many hearts were poured into it?

Best regards
smallB

So just because you complain about stability (even though you can't even be precise and point to what the problem is) you're a hero and the rest of us is just afraid of being politically incorrect?
Get off your high horse. Most active users on this forum provide much more constructive criticism than you do. All you're doing is saying it's a "toy" and that it's unstable without ever saying anything constructive.
Since you think you're such a hero, then maybe you should help by actually pointing to what needs to be changed and what the stability issues are, rather than just complain like a hurt kid.
You're not providing anything.

[smallB]

@Sitrec
Surely you've read my previous posts?
I mentioned:

Stability of software with regards to crashes - this needs to be improved
Stability of Editors menu
Stability of API
...

[iniside]

And here we go again. At this point it looks like trolling ;s

[ChrisTm]

And here we go again. At this point it looks like trolling ;s

Twitch will be hot tonight
Nothing more passion for EU4 here

[Sitrec]

@Sitrec
Surely you've read my previous posts?
I mentioned:

Stability of software with regards to crashes - this needs to be improved
Stability of Editors menu
Stability of API
...

All I see is crashes, which for the most part are self inflicted. But I do agree that the software sometimes crash unprovoked, but not much at all anymore.
The rest is just not related to stability what so ever, no matter how much you want it to be.
And even if they were, you need to say what you want Epic to change, constructive criticism, look that up.
You can't just go on moaning about the menu and API without saying what's wrong with it and what you want them to change.

[smallB]

And even if they were, you need to say what you want Epic to change, constructive criticism, look that up.
You can't just go on moaning about the menu and API without saying what's wrong with it and what you want them to change.

For the love of hell!
Did you see breaking changes between 4.5 and 4.4 ?!?

That means UE4 (software after all) is on very unstable stage. I don't say I don't like UE4 (I love it as a matter of fact), I don't say it's weak or anything like that, all I'm saying is that UE4 at the current stage is very unstable as a software.

If you were using Word, and every month or so they would make changes that prevent you from opening documents from previous version, how would you feel about it?!
If you were using Word, and after saving document with some strange unicode character, you wouldn't be able to read that document again, what would you say about this software?!




@inside
"And here we go again. At this point it looks like trolling ;s "
yes, you are trolling by posting non-constructive, pointless posts!

[Sitrec]

For the love of hell!
Did you see breaking changes between 4.5 and 4.4 ?!?

That means UE4 (software after all) is on very unstable stage. I don't say I don't like UE4 (I love it as a matter of fact), I don't say it's weak or anything like that, all I'm saying is that UE4 at the current stage is very unstable as a software.

If you were using Word, and every month or so they would make changes that prevent you from opening documents from previous version, how would you feel about it?!
If you were using Word, and after saving document with some strange unicode character, you wouldn't be able to read that document again, what would you say about this software?!




@inside
"And here we go again. At this point it looks like trolling ;s "
yes, you are trolling by posting non-constructive, pointless posts!

No I have not experienced anything breaking the engine since the new 4.5 version, it have been working great for our projects with lots of new features.
I hear navmesh is having some issues with lag, that's it as far as I know.
That's one feature out of thousands, I don't consider one bug warranting calling the engine a "toy".
There are few softwares this advanced that doesn't face bugs with updates, since you're so experienced with softwares I thought you would know that.
Comparing it to not being able to open documents in word is truly exaggerating it.

You still haven't pointed out the problems with the menu and api though, I guess you were just talking out of your *** since you keep avoiding these questions.

[HappyPie_PewPew]

Hey Guys, so what did I miss lol ....
.....followed by a nice wall of text

I think I have the same view on all the points you made and want to complement for the way you wrote it

Would also like to add my thoughts and perspective regarding posts about "stability issue". 2 actually.

My first perspective is perhaps generally accepted and understood, its about that because every computer has different configuration on both hardware and software it makes hard to find all the bugs before a public release. Actually I would say while going out on a limb that its rather impossible
Epics own QA can only do so much before initial (minor) release, rest is done with the community/users feedback and bug reports as patch releases. (z in x.y.z)
Interestingly what Epic has done for 4.5 is releasing a preview build accessible from the launcher to catch some of the bugs that Epic perhaps wouldn't have done without the community, for the minor release instead into the patch releases resulting in better 4.5.0 release experience.
As I said this is what's perhaps generally accepted and understood.

My second perspective is perhaps not so clear and present in our minds (or existing at all ), it's about that some thinks that 4.x.0 release quality is a good minor release while others find it lacking. This is because that we, the users, have different needs and sets the bar differently, we must understand and respect this both ways.
Some find that a 4.x.0 should be as good as a 4.x.1 or perhaps even as good as a 4.x.2 quality release is today. Here we, the users, have different thoughts about it I guess and to add more complexity and a headache to this story is that some user experience the builds differently because of their own hardware & software configuration as explained on first perspective!

Currently one way to go is that you, as a user, should determine for yourself and not for others what level of quality release you set the bar and stick to that. If you prefer a more stable version wait until first or second patch release (i.e. 4.x.1 or 4.x.2) or read the forums and check the temperature.
Otherwise for the future there are two other options for Epic to go with that I can think of:
First option, if we insist on better initial minor releases (4.x.0) we have to reasonably go with 2 or more preview releases and longer/slower development time I guess.
Second option if really really really needed is that Epic introduces LTS (long term support) versions perhaps once every year which might slow down the current main branch due to resources spent on two versions.

[Daelus]

Two words: render layers.
Need it!

I'd second this. It would be great to be able to use render layers to control post effects or general look of the game. It's also great for experimentation as you can apply effects to specific layers rather than having to make the effect in a material then set up that material to apply to all the relevant objects. Understandably, it would come at a performance cost, but being able to do a pass by pass composition of the visuals would be a godsend.

[smallB]

No I have not experienced anything breaking the engine since the new 4.5 version, it have been working great for our projects with lots of new features.
I hear navmesh is having some issues with lag, that's it as far as I know.
That's one feature out of thousands, I don't consider one bug warranting calling the engine a "toy".
There are few softwares this advanced that doesn't face bugs with updates, since you're so experienced with softwares I thought you would know that.
Comparing it to not being able to open documents in word is truly exaggerating it.

You still haven't pointed out the problems with the menu and api though, I guess you were just talking out of your *** since you keep avoiding these questions.

I wasn't talking about bugs. Every soft has bugs, something that big as UE4 will have bugs. This is not the point. So it is like you are talking out of your *** or you are reading with your ***, that you cannot understand what I'm talking about.
If you read https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...e-4-5-Released! you will see what changes are breaking and maybe you will understand what I'm on about.

Don't get me wrong. I love UE4, I love Epic, I have utmost respect for engineers working there and their skills. This isn't the point and I would never dream about insulting anybody.

The ONLY thing I'm saying is that UE4 at this stage is still very unstable, and I'm not talking about crashes, for the love of hell!

I also love changes to UE4, additions improvements etc.

[Shadow.Storm]

Rather than put things on the cloud, it would be nice if when you crtl+c it saves the text necessary to generate that blueprint to the os clipboard. then you could copy it into a broswer/chat/email or save a text file somewhere. Then someone else can copy the text and past it into the eventgraph and be turned into nodes.

Hi dokipen! You should already be able to do this - if you select some nodes and copy them, then open a text editor and paste, you will get the text representation of those nodes for easy sharing.

[iniside]

For the love of hell!
Did you see breaking changes between 4.5 and 4.4 ?!?

That means UE4 (software after all) is on very unstable stage. I don't say I don't like UE4 (I love it as a matter of fact), I don't say it's weak or anything like that, all I'm saying is that UE4 at the current stage is very unstable as a software.

If you were using Word, and every month or so they would make changes that prevent you from opening documents from previous version, how would you feel about it?!
If you were using Word, and after saving document with some strange unicode character, you wouldn't be able to read that document again, what would you say about this software?!




@inside
"And here we go again. At this point it looks like trolling ;s "
yes, you are trolling by posting non-constructive, pointless posts!

Oh gosh! We got breaking changes in software which is under constant development. What a surprise!
The only software that doesn't have breaking changes is the one, that is no longer developed.


As matter of fact, some changes break my code. Did I complained about it ? No. Why ? Because that change in engine code was good for future.
Does fixing it on my side costed me mutch ? Oh well I maybe lost 20 minutes of my life. How terrible!

Tl;dr very unstable is not good phrase. Stop using it.

[Chosker]

Tl;dr very unstable is not good phrase. Stop using it.

actually I have to agree a little with him.

for me it's not about crashes, it's about partially working features and the way they are announced: "new feature: this!". coming from such a high end engine, to me it sounds like a new thing that's tested and ready for production (or at least completely usable) while half the time it's an "early access" to a feature
a few examples:

• Imposters came in 4.3 and to this day the 'billboard' part of the shader is not working (and the setup shown in the documentation varies from the one shown on some AnswerHub post). On top of that it came out as an "engine feature" while in fact it's a standalone project (meaning you need to move your assets back and forth, not practical) and the documentation didn't really match the workflow (so it was pretty much a tutorial, and a broken one)
• Animation retargetting came on 4.4 with documentation that was matching 4.5 (and you couldn't really use it)
• Media Playback and Capture came with 4.5. the release notes were saying "you can play streaming video on UI widgets and textured objects" which sounds very nice, while the forum topic states "The feature is not quite production ready yet" and shows that only the .wmv file format is supported.
• Landscape Mountains came out as an official Marketplace asset to "showcase what you can do with the Landscape and foliage tools in Unreal Engine 4" while in fact the Landscape tool was pretty much only used to import content made in WorldMachine (which brings the underlying message that even they know their own Landscape tools are vastly inferior), and then many people found out the thing is so big you need 16 GB of RAM or else lightmass crashes if you try to build it

other times it's just things that don't work (like SceneCapture actors still can't use PostProcess blendables), and don't get fixed until much time later (like a "Keep Simulation Changes" crash I had in April, and wasn't fixed until 4.3), or just don't get put enough effort to (something as basic as Translucency sorting is still as bad as engines from 10 years ago)
lastly, every release breaks something in C++. like you say it' usually around 20 minutes to fix (thanks to Rama's usual notes), but nowadays most C++ tutorials are not even followable at all without a good number of visits to AnswerHub
on top of that every new feature bloats the editor so it becomes increasingly slower (unlike the pre-4.0 betas)

I didn't really come here to complain. I know development changes the software but a "just bear with it" attitude doesn't seem too apropriate here. yes it's a great piece of software, but it's still a piece of software that people are paying for.
I love Unreal, I only think that Epic should slow down a bit and make the existing features faster, more solid and more stable, before moving on to the new features

[smallB]

Oh gosh! We got breaking changes in software which is under constant development.
[...]As matter of fact, some changes break my code...

That's why I'm saying that UE4 is at unstable to very unstable stage at this particular momment.

The only software that doesn't have breaking changes is the one, that is no longer developed.

You are simply wrong.

Tl;dr very unstable is not good phrase.

It is very appropriate and adequate phrase to the current state of affairs.

Stop using it.

Stop telling me what I can say because it is simply rude and make you look unprofessional.