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    #76
    I don't know what you are complaining about.

    I posted two bug submissions. After a few days I got mails. One had the Issues link of one bug and one mail wants further repro steps for the other bug

    Closer to Epic isn't even possible.

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      #77
      Not meant to complain, but to give constructive feedback.

      So where can i see those bugs you submitted ?

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        #78
        Amanda.Bott I received a Mail that some Reproduction steps didn't work. Should I answer that mail or submit another Bug Report?

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          #79
          Originally posted by Raildex_ View Post
          Amanda.Bott I received a Mail that some Reproduction steps didn't work. Should I answer that mail or submit another Bug Report?
          I think your 2 posts to this thread *exactly* demonstrate [at least part of] the problem we're talking about - you posted a bug, the devs want further info, and you had to come to the forums to try to figure out how to get that feedback to them. Doesn't that strike you as at least somewhat broken? If nothing else, it seems completely different from literally every other bug tracker I've ever used.

          I think the lack of any sort of 2-way communication totally misses the mark in a couple of ways: it creates problems like yours and mine where there's no way to add clarifying details or respond to questions, and it spreads information around that really should belong in one place (it's silly to say that we should talk about a bug in AnswerHub).

          These are unnecessary problems that only discourage the community, and they also make it really hard to track down good info - countless times I've relied on the info in e.g. the github issue tracker for some project to
          • learn about a bug and find details on a workaround
          • hear why a dev says that something won't be fixed (it's infuriating to have a UE4 bug marked as "won't fix / by design" without a single comment of why it's the intended behavior or what the alternative "right" way to do things is - this happened to me just this morning in fact)
          • respond to a dev's request for input on a new feature or a fix
          I'm guessing the current form is the result of some other problem - maybe they were spending too much time on issue triage - but if so, the cure is worse than the disease and there are better solutions. Heck, if the problem is that they were just overwhelmed with garbage bugs, I'm sure the community would be happy to step in and act as a buffer - just doing first-line triage to weed out stuff that is obvious garbage. But again, we don't really know, do we, since we can't really get anyone from Epic to engage in a conversation about it.

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            #80
            Exactly...

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              #81
              Actually,... looking into a bug i'm having... Why even bother anymore...


              https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-13679

              5 frigging years ! Even with a pull request a year old.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by dbrueck View Post

                I think your 2 posts to this thread *exactly* demonstrate [at least part of] the problem we're talking about - you posted a bug, the devs want further info, and you had to come to the forums to try to figure out how to get that feedback to them. Doesn't that strike you as at least somewhat broken? If nothing else, it seems completely different from literally every other bug tracker I've ever used.
                You are right, it is unclear what happens if further details are needed. But contacting me directly goes into the right direction imo.
                I mean okay, the last mail is already 3 days old and I haven't received an answer after I sent a reproduced project. This could be improved indeed.

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                  #83
                  Originally posted by Raildex_ View Post
                  You are right, it is unclear what happens if further details are needed. But contacting me directly goes into the right direction imo.
                  Definitely, although usually that's just accomplished (in other issue trackers) by getting an email when someone posts a comment to the issue. But yeah, I agree, I'm glad they at least reached out to you.

                  I wish the back and forth with a bug submitter was made public - again, like it works in most issue trackers - because I'm sure we've all seen cases where we can easily reproduce a bug but the dev on the receiving side can't easily reproduce it (if at all). But often somebody else who has the same problem will come along and chime in with an additional detail or a different way to reproduce the problem or some insight and then that's enough for the dev to be able to reproduce it and fix it.

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                    #84
                    Originally posted by Raildex_ View Post
                    Amanda.Bott I received a Mail that some Reproduction steps didn't work. Should I answer that mail or submit another Bug Report?
                    Apologies - was on the road. Just respond to the email!

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Hey folks,

                      The Bug Submission Form has provided our team with more informative reports, allowing them to reproduce, file, and resolve issues more efficiently. We understand that it lacks collaborative and tracking elements for a wider audience, but it has solved other challenges we’ve experienced with tracking bugs on AnswerHub internally. If you’d like to see what input your fellow devs may have, then feel free to share your issue to AnswerHub as well.

                      In recent weeks, the form was shifted to a new backend. This doesn’t affect what you see, but it did simplify the process for the team, allowing them to more effectively communicate with submitters.

                      Most tickets receive a response, often resulting with either:
                      • A direct link to the new issue on the public tracker,
                      • A request for repro steps,
                      • Notification of the bug being a duplicate, or
                      • Notification of the feature “working as intended."
                      In the event of the latter, always feel free to post this to the Feedback for Epic thread. We, the community team, compile requests from here and pass them along to our dev teams. Down the line, we hope to build a more robust tool for reporting these requests.

                      Submissions that are unrelated to engine development, such as reports concerning Fortnite or spam, will immediately be closed with no notification.

                      Please understand that the Bug Submission Form has never been intended to be the “new AnswerHub.” It’s been implemented to help us push higher quality bugs through to our dev teams, while we work on a better, long-term solution.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Amanda.Bott - What I miss the most is the discoverability of other people’s bug reports. The number of times I would google a problem I’m having and would find a bug report about it. At least then I knew I wasn’t doing something wrong and could help by contributing more details to the report. Cross posting to AH is useless as most people won’t and the devs won’t see it. So if I come along with extra info for the bug... nobody will read it because the devs won’t even know it is there and linked to the issue.

                        Maybe the form should auto create an AH post with all the details and add the link to the form submission to the devs. People will be able to find it in google and not bother submitting a new bug report then but contribute to the existing one.

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                          #87
                          UE-58676, which I unfortunately ran into, and even more regrettably put some effort into reporting, is a typical example of how of a joke that bug report form, and to be honest, whole system is.

                          There is little to no correlation between ticket and the thread, describing issue and my follow-up report. Moreover, the ticket was initially filed based completely off the words of the initial reporting user, without any application of common sense and critical thinking. Neither the ticket reflects severity of the issue and number of users potentially affected. Even more so, the ticket contains misleading information, including its title.

                          The effort, put into reviewing bugs is incomparably lower, than effort of reporting them. In best case, whatever text you submit, will be copy/pasted to the issue tracker, provided that you succeed manipulating reviewer with reproduction steps.
                          In between 4.6 and 4.19 I've encountered a good deal of bugs. It is pretty expected for a software of such scale. I've reported only 4. Simply because I've considered the others minor and not worth any time. From those 4, one was a rare and minor material editor crash in earlier versions. The other one was not a bug technically, but a major flaw. The amount of resistance encountered was comparable to starting a revolt. Third one was UI issue in the newer version, that most likely sinked in can't reproduce bin.

                          And the last one was UE-58676. At least 8 users, in addition to posters in the thread, whom I know experiencing it, replied that they can't be bothered to report it, because it won't even make it to issue tracker, or nobody will ever do a thing about it anyway

                          So far, UE4 bug reporting feels the same way, as applying for a handgun carry permit.
                          It should be the other way around.





                          Comment


                            #88
                            The problem with the current bug submission form is it lacks the transparency of AnswerHub bug reports. There is no way to track a bug report until it is added to the Issues page so you don't even know if your report is being worked on, or was discarded (which the user should be notified of btw). Beyond that, there is no simple way to discuss a bug in the Issue tracker in one place, currently AnswerHub & forum posts are being created to ask a question on an issue. This creates numerous posts in in different sections, and sites, that become hard for others to find.

                            How about something like this. Create a new section called Crashes on AnswerHub, move all current threads from Bug Reports to this new section, and then lock down Bug Reports so only Epic can create new threads. Using an automated system post a "discussion thread" for every bug report filed in your system. The initial post would contain a copy of the bug report text (minus the users email address of course), the ticket #, etc. and then add a new comment with the relevant info every time the report changes its state. If a report is not reproducible as an example, the user who submitted the report subscribes to receive updates (might be possible to automate this as well) and can then reply back with additional info or a test project containing the bug. This would also benefit bugs on the Issue tracker by combining all discussion in one place instead of creating multiple posts whenever they need to ask or tell Epic something, and would eliminate the posts asking how long a fix will take as updates are posted to the thread. If it's too difficult to set up an automated system on AnswerHub then maybe create a new section here on the forums, or add a new section to the Issues page for new reports where the user can add comments (and enable comments for fully tracked bugs too).

                            I understand why this system was created and believe it can work well for both Epic staff and the end users, but open discussion is an essential part of that system for us end users and needs to be implemented in some way.
                            Last edited by DotCam; 06-09-2018, 09:33 PM.
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                              #89
                              Perhaps put a link to the form under resources - support/issues.
                              The only way I know of getting to it (though I haven't looked that hard) is to go to these forums and find a thread that links to it.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                I see no meaningful reply from epic on this other than stubborn a "this is the way it is for the good of us, not you"
                                Many have suggested AT LEAST an automatic answer hub thread opened for these bugs, with correspondence also automatically being added to the thread

                                We want to SEE the bugs, we want to TALK about the bugs, we want to SEE THE RESULTS, THE WORK AROUNDS, MORE INFORMATION

                                Since this new system has been implemented, i've stopped reporting bugs, and ive also stopped using answer hub, except to do the above mentioned.

                                What I HAVE been doing, it submitting crash reports for every little crash, but that feels just as meaningless, but requires no effort, and at least I do see crash submission fixes when enough of us submit the same crash

                                The corporate game is the bean counting game. And that never does well for the community as a whole. I'm glad your bug reports appear to be more meaningful. I'm just aware, that the meaningful bugs are not actually reported because anyone having a hard time does NOT want to shoot off a bug report in the dark without the ability for other members to chime in with extra details or a work around when epic says wont fix. ect.
                                Last edited by EvoPulseGaming; 06-13-2018, 11:55 PM.
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