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    the 4.18 can not even package ios on my mac. anybody have the same problem?

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      If, lets say performance oriented game in end will be baked but still when creating that same world then dynamic GI could give good way to pre-visualize how light will be when baked. This is just one of many benefits of realtime GI, it is time consuming to bake every time to look how world looks.
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        Originally posted by John Alcatraz View Post
        I think the most successful games made with UE4 (Ark and PUBG I would guess, Fortnite BR regarding the amount of players too) use dynamic lighting. People want to have games with huge open worlds, and those have to use dynamic lighting. Also, almost every single game can benefit from a dynamic time of day, even games that are fully indoor with only light coming through the windows. So even games like Paragon or Unreal Tournament would immediately look more dynamic and interesting.

        Baked lighting is severely limiting the available gameplay a game can have. For example can't have dynamic destruction of things like buildings, since its baked. So baked lighting should really be used for almost no games any more. I do see that it makes a lot of sense for architectural visualization and that's what these world class features that UE4 recently got are mostly used for I think. UE4 is definitely the best engine for any arch viz, because it has this really perfect baked lighting. But almost any existing and future game would be better with dynamic lighting.
        I completely agree with John, I can only imagine few games where baked lighting is really the better choice. More and more people want dynamic worlds that feel less static and more real, more alive. Also procedural generated worlds / maps are what people are asking for more and more.
        And I mean, why shouldn't they? It's 2017, the technology is there, as can be seen in CryEngine, it just needs to be implemented.

        Personally I have such great ideas for gameworlds, but Unreal Engine is limiting me in so many ways.. and as a small (indie dev) team, I don't have the knowledge nor the resources to build complicated workarounds or rewrite the Engine.

        Eventually, people are going to move on to a different engine, one that truly supports dynamic lighting and dynamic gameworlds in general. This may not happen this or even next year, but eventually it will. And I can't imagine Epic wants to be an Archviz / VR Engine only.
        Last edited by spacegojira; 11-02-2017, 07:33 AM.

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          Originally posted by iniside View Post
          Fully dynamic GI solution is probably out of question (not enough man power, to maintain it)
          I honestly don't know of any other company in this industry that's as broke as Crytek, but at the same time they have and are maintaining the best looking real-time GI in the entire game industry. Ofc there wouldn't be enough man power to maintain it if you dedicate all the man power to other stuff. That only means they didn't want to do it, not that they couldn't do it.

          .......and no. I'm not saying Epic should give us a good dynamic GI right now. Please don't burn me alive people.
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            Originally posted by John Alcatraz View Post
            Also, almost every single game can benefit from a dynamic time of day, even games that are fully indoor with only light coming through the windows. So even games like Paragon or Unreal Tournament would immediately look more dynamic and interesting.
            It's not like almost every single game is open world exploration game nowadays. Yes, out of the box support for Time of Day mechanism would be really nice, but IMHO it's easy to script it too. Did it for one game and it didn't feel like missing anything.
            Of course yeah... different game, different needs. But that's probably not right topic to discuss it

            Originally posted by John Alcatraz View Post
            Baked lighting is severely limiting the available gameplay a game can have. For example can't have dynamic destruction of things like buildings, since its baked. So baked lighting should really be used for almost no games any more.
            Yes, it's totally limiting. I hate it as designer. Still... there a lot of games need it. VR and mobile games need lightmaps to achieve proper framerate.
            Even open world games use it. Assasin's Creed series doesn't use dynamic Time of Day, they're baking few lightning states representing noon, evening, night, etc + smart use of dynamics.
            The atmospheric game like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, that I was working on, had to use prebaked lights. Not only because of the perfomance, artists relied on soft "eerie" looks of static lightning to create specific mood of the game. Sold around 500K copies on Steam alone in the first year. I bet there are a lot more successful titles using baked lightning out there

            That being said... we're still far from efficient GI in UE4. There's a lot issues and features waiting for ages. I agree on that, but I do accept harsh truth: this engine needs to satisfy needs of very different games. Like one of Bioware's developers said "Frostbite is like Formula 1. UE4 is like SUV, a car for entire family".
            The Vanishing of Ethan Carter is a first-person story-driven mystery. Purchase this game to get both the original and the Unreal Engine 4 remaster called The Vanishing of Ethan Carter Redux.
            Last edited by Moth Doctor; 11-02-2017, 08:57 AM.

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              Originally posted by spacegojira View Post

              I completely agree with John, I can only imagine few games where baked lighting is really the better choice. More and more people want dynamic worlds that feel less static and more real, more alive.
              Thanks!

              Originally posted by kjustynski View Post

              It's not like almost every single game is open world exploration game nowadays. Yes, out of the box support for Time of Day mechanism would be really nice, but IMHO it's easy to script it too. Did it for one game and it didn't feel like missing anything.
              I didn't say there should be any time of day mechanism built into the engine, that's not what we're talking about here. Rotating a directional light is really not an issue. The issue is that with static lighting you can't do it.

              Originally posted by spacegojira View Post
              And I can't imagine Epic wants to be an Archviz / VR Engine only.
              Originally posted by kjustynski View Post
              Yes, it's totally limiting. I hate it as designer. Still... there a lot of games need it. VR and mobile games need lightmaps to achieve proper framerate.
              I don't like how you both make it sound as if VR games wouldn't want to use dynamic lighting. I am interested so much in dynamic lighting improvements because I am working on a VR game that uses fully dynamic lighting. So it is completely doable. I spent a lot of time with editing shaders, optimizing other stuff in the source and adding my own dynamic "GI" that works for my game, so it isn't easy of course and it takes a lot of hard work, but it's not like "VR Games" and "games that need dynamic lighting" are on opposite ends of the spectrum or anything like that.

              I really don't want to work on a VR game with static lighting. Especially in VR it feels great when everything is dynamic, dynamic lighting is really what makes it come to life.

              Originally posted by kjustynski View Post
              Like one of Bioware's developers said "Frostbite is like Formula 1. UE4 is like SUV, a car for entire family".
              Well, a Tesla Model X (that's a SUV) isn't far from the acceleration of a formula 1 car, so it greatly depends on what kind of SUV you are looking at. Would be nice if UE4 could be such a SUV It's a nice quote though, I agree.
              Last edited by John Alcatraz; 11-02-2017, 09:20 AM.
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                And I love Tesla Model X comparison
                Well, I'm curious what happens when rendering guys finally add all the "platforms". You know VR, AR, forward rendering, Metal, Vulkan, DX12, Nintento Switch... That's crazy amount of work for engine team.

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                  Originally posted by kjustynski View Post
                  And I love Tesla Model X comparison
                  Well, I'm curious what happens when rendering guys finally add all the "platforms". You know VR, AR, forward rendering, Metal, Vulkan, DX12, Nintento Switch... That's crazy amount of work for engine team.
                  You are making no sense. Vulkan can cover VR, AR, forward rendering and mobile. And it's not even a platform. Switch is most likely GLES 3.x (or even Vulkan), which is already supported.
                  Last edited by motorsep; 11-02-2017, 11:31 AM.

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                    Originally posted by kjustynski View Post
                    Even open world games use it. Assasin's Creed series doesn't use dynamic Time of Day,
                    False. Assassin's Creed Origins have fully dynamic lighting and time cycle. Ghost Recon: Wildlands as well (both use them same engine).

                    IDK what tech they are using now for it, but I guess it's developed version of their probe based lighting. But considering the size of game, they are not baking entire cubemaps and instead just bake light transport (which would be required to have dynamic lighting anyway).

                    I'd like to see similiar solution in Unreal. As it gives you a lot of benfits of static lightmaps (it's pretty fast and results are comparable to offline light tracer), but also gives you dynamic light sources.
                    AC:O looks incredible, the lighting transitions between outside/inside environment are smooth.
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                      Originally posted by John Alcatraz View Post
                      I don't like how you both make it sound as if VR games wouldn't want to use dynamic lighting.
                      Oh I am sorry, from my poor VR dev knowledge I had the impression people in VR only use static lighting (like in Archviz) because of performance reasons.

                      I like what you say with "Especially in VR it feels great when everything is dynamic, dynamic lighting is really what makes it come to life.", because this is also on point for most other (non-vr) projects.
                      It also creates so many more creative gameplay possibilities, even just thinking about it gives me tons of new ideas of what it can be used for.

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                        Any one else have problems with ios? I noticed that performance is very bad. Frame time is doubled versus 4.17. There is also some sort of glitch that shake up dynamic shadows and materials that use worldposition based texture coordinates at pixel shader. Basically unusable.

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                          Originally posted by Kalle_H View Post
                          Any one else have problems with ios? I noticed that performance is very bad. Frame time is doubled versus 4.17. There is also some sort of glitch that shake up dynamic shadows and materials that use worldposition based texture coordinates at pixel shader. Basically unusable.
                          This engine update is pretty much a "Fortnite" pull.
                          I doubt they've tested any of those changes on low/mid mobile.
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                            https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-45681

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                              Is there an ETA on 4.18.1?

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                                We expect between 1 and 2 weeks for the 4.18.1 hotfix.

                                Cheers
                                Stephen Ellis | Senior Engine Coordinator

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