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One more "way over your head" noob with great ambitions:P:)

Hello to everybody:) The other day i was playing a game and for some reason i quit playing and started thinking. Why dont i make my own? I definitely have good ideas:) well i had this idea before but never attempted for same reason im terrified now:) Im control engineering student at Istanbul Technical University. I have been working with electronics and embedded programming for over 10 years as hobby and now as my major but never tried to program something for “software use” only. Long story short im new to Softdev. let along to game development:)

But as much as terrified im i did the step and after searching game engines for a day i landed here on Unreal engine 4 as it seems easiest to learn:)

Now to questions and my ideas.

An MMO adventure game which would take place on huge universe both on planets and space. Mining trading crafting ! All the fun things!:slight_smile: The universe would be procedural created systems, sectors, planets, asteroids shortly the game world itself. Flight and driving inside planetary atmosphere and outher spac. I have been searching procedural generation for a day now and it seems a very hard thing to implement. But from what i see in all the forums nothing is impossible given time and patience. So once more any ideas how would i create this universe?

One more feature of the game. All the vehicle and structures are going to be created in the game by players. This is the tricky part. Its not a voxel based game!:slight_smile: for creating structures and ships one would use sort of a design tool in the game where he or she would design a ship with tools like the once in graphic design tool.
for example : Choose hull material and design the exterior of the ship , choose which kind of power reactors and capacitors would this ship need according to all the requirements of ships systems like thrusters, computers and so on. Place your thrusters and stabilizers according to your ships geometry and mass. While aerodynamics is not important in outer space one would design the ship differently for atmospheric entry and flight.

Long story short all the structures would be unique both in shape and performance. Massive data :confused: Can it be achieved in mmo setting? If yes any tips and tricks or guides?:slight_smile:

Thanks in advance!:slight_smile:

So, Kerbal Space Program mixed in with No Man’s Sky and Eve Online?

I don’t fancy your chances! :slight_smile:

Start small, get a working prototype up and running, and see if other people are interested in joining you.

Good luck!

I don’t remember exactly but I think you need a lot of math skills to make a procedural universe like the one in No Man’s Sky.

Hi. Thanks for your kind replies . Exactly ! Thats the mix i was thinking about:) Beside the procedural generation i think ill have to implement lots of math to flight simulation in atmospheric environment . Things like friction, aerodynamics of designed ship, thrusters and stabilizer positioning and their applied force on the ship and so on:)

Where would you purpose i start? from character creation and uI? Procedural generation of worlds or flight physics?

And all this shabang must be in MMO setting :confused: Any directions? or Advice?:slight_smile:

[IncorrectAdvice]Forget the MMO bit for now. Just get a local version running. The multiplayer part can come later.[/IncorrectAdvice]

EDIT: Nope, as Adam Davis says below, keep network in mind at all times when designing the game. Disregard my advice.

I decided to break down things into smaller parts.
I think my first objective would be to create a planet.:slight_smile:
1 huge planet with all the landscape vegetation, atmosphere, physics Shortly 1 huge earth like habitable planet.
Then on this planet ill work on character . Inventory system, basic UI with health and stamina.
Then figure out some basic resource types like ores crystals
Then ability to interact with this planet dig holes gather those materials.
Then basic crafting system and ability of creating bases, vehicles and finally flight!
Then work on networking and MMO aspects since its already a playable game. I can set a crowd funding at this point and get funds and teams for further development:)
If i manage to implement and get this systems working i can manage to extend this into a huge universe and outher space flight.
From this point since its already a playable game all the equipment and tools for outher space exploration and travel will be announced like an innovation and breakthrough of scientist of that planet. Kinda like a story line for players.
year 5000 our people managed to construct first outer space engine to fly into space. At this point game limited just to that planets solar system. As work is progressing we manage to add other solar systems game area expands. Year 5050 first jump drive module breakthrough has been achieved U can jump to other systems and explore the galaxy!:slight_smile:

What you think about this “Milestones” ?:slight_smile: Is it a good angle to approach to this project?
And now i have more specific question which is how do i create a planet with core , atmosphere , terrine , different types of resources? How do i add a functionality for a player to be able to dig , flatten or rise area of land with some kind of futuristic shovel :S:D

Ok first impulse and idea came to my mind was to create a new first person project , create new empty level . I put a sphere centered it and increased the scale by 1000. When i try landscaping action appears in the middle plane plate. So my (im not sure what its actually called) area where character can move and act is in fact inside that sphere on that plane plate :confused: Can i deform that plate into a sphere? Im doing it wrong obviously. Any tips? and should i create a new thread for this topic?

Try the space template, not the First Person.

Don’t landscape the planet yet. You are still just prototyping. Try making a planet using a blueprint class. Then use it to spawn several of them. Then try introducing a model of a Solar System.

Break down what you are trying to do into small steps.

I would probably start by kidnapping Sean Murray! Seriously, no kidding, achieving all of this from a blank page is the stuff of legends. Normally it takes a custom engine to do all of this, as UE4 isn’t nearly 100% procedural and may never be. Start out by reading every post on here with Procedural & No Man’s Sky in the Title, and focus on working around the limitations especially regarding the lack of dynamic landscaping / planetary terrain in UE4. Watch this clip from Sean M too as it offers some neat insights :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-kifCYToAU

Also, this may be of interest to get you started :-

…and also this thread is worth following esp from page 6 on :-

Hi. Thanks for your kind response, :slight_smile:

Space template ? where do i find that?:confused: my searches in google were inconclusive for that :confused:

I have alredy divided my idea into smaller parts. And first step of game play would be in one single earth sized planet. its my main objective right now.

franktech Well in terms of game play no mans sky and what im building is different. No mans sky is is focused on mainly exploration while my game is focused on both manufacturing and creativity and exploration. The approach of Sean Murray is ingenious but it limits the MMO functionality. As u might know several players being in same place and interact with each other in no mans sky is almost impossible. And in my opinion one of limiting factors here is Seans approach of generation surrounding instantly when the player enters the ordinate. What i need is persistent and totally deform able and destroy able planetary objects. I contacted the creator of Grand designer and he didnt advise his product for my project.
I quote from an email :
Well this software is more targetted on the creation of planet seen from a certain distance. It create several layers of non tiling textures with a resolution of up to 16k x 8k, wich is definitely not enough if you want to be able to land on the planet or come really close. For that kind of stuff, it’s probably better to look at full realtime procedural generation, like the ones they have created for no man’s sky. The way it’s working also separates the creation from the rendering … you create your planet, save it as a set of textures than import them in Unreal, Unity or any other engines …

As u see he also advised Seans approach. Please do correct me if im wrong here. Do i get a deform able destroy able earth sized persistent planet if its generated from a math equation as character enters certain area? For example if i dig a hole in a place can somebody else including myself see it there after several days or even be with many people at the same spot and interact with each other?

Thanks in advance!:slight_smile: have a good day:)

I know nothing about game dev, but know quite a bit about software engineering. Your game will probably need to be a 3 project solution. You will have the client (the program players use) and then the server, which will keep track of generated objects and players. Both of these pieces of software will refer (use) the last, but not least, project: The object and world generation logic.

Won’t be an easy task.

Just a guess but maybe Jezcentral was referring to the Sci-Fi bunk level instead of the FPS template, both in the learn tab of the launcher…

Its been a while since I watched those clips, but I thought Sean said that there were mining aspects in terms of gathering / harvesting resources to survive / build ships etc. That still doesn’t address creativity though whatever you meant by that exactly…

Actually this often gets debated. An early remark from Sean hinted that players might be so far spread out that it would be difficult, although not impossible, to overlap / interact. That view changed later. Maybe because they’re looking at multiple release cycles with the game evolving each time. But hey I don’t want to sound like a PR spokesman here. Its hard enough forgetting about all the broken promises of Watchdogs, never mind the infamous vapor-ware: ‘The Outsider’ …

There is anther video I think its 10 or 20 quick questions about No Man’s Sky, and in that Sean hints at persistent deformable destroyable planets… Although there were few details given…

I just suggested this as a starting point. To be clear there’s no way to make a No Mans Sky in UE4, and maybe this will always be the case. But there’s nothing stopping you from creating a prototype, a compromise with 3 distinct views: universe, corona orbit, planet surface. So 3 separate modes of playable MMO. They just won’t seamlessly blend together like No Mans Sky. This was what I could achieve using UDK in MP but not MMO. This approach has the advantage that the player gets a taste of space, while being able to free-roam planets below, and they can ‘zoom out’ and go on galaxy expeditions also…

Of course this type of deformation can become persistent, but its a huge amount of work. I suspect that Eve Online threads might be of more interest and relevancy to you now than No Man’s Sky having thought about it more…

I didn’t read all of it, but I would advise creating a Game Design Document. That way you can list all the ideas down in a coherent, planned way so that you can stay on track.
Creating a big game can get frustrating quick if you’re not careful.

Make milestones and then show them off, even if it look like *****. You made a game, most people can’t say that.
You’ll get some advice, as well as motivation to keep going.

UE4 is the best engine to do this with, since there are good things right out the box with this engine.
However, I implore you to have patience. I’ve been using UE4 since December and it’s not until now, I feel like I have a handle on this thing.

Read all the documentation for UE4 when it’s necessary. The Docs can be daunting, but if you read it when you need it, you should be ok.

Hello. Thanks for your replies and guide :slight_smile:
I keep notes in my notebook but switch to more dedicated software or tool for project management. Thats very useful and important note thank you KinDaKreator for reminding !:slight_smile:

franktech

By creativity i meant players should be able to design their ships and vehicles with given modules in how ever shape and form they want. Think of it like space engineers or KSP . Im not sure how no mans sky will do it. Most of the games where u can create a ship or something u just use present “blueprint” . add materials and vuala you have gigantic ship all made from rocks and ore. What im thinking is u use rocks and ores and blueprint for modules like engine, reactor, thruster and then use those modules on a ship hull . That hull design is depended on player. He can create simple cube and add those modules inside his ship (the desired amount and placement of modules) and have a fliying space cube (probably not a good idea if he wants to fly inside atmosphere), Or he can design a hull to look like F22 with life support and stuff which can fly in both atmospheric planet side environment and open space.

I have also took a look at the custom procedural mesh thread which u advised and seemed like a good idea and posted a question there if i could create an earth sized planet with some ores and different materials inside with that technique. The answer i recived Ull need a custom engine for your idea. :confused:

Im confused and frustrated :confused:

If your building a MMO, I would suggest getting the MMO stater kit, it has all the basic functionality including how to setup the database for the players. here is the page on the forum to see how it was built. https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?53208-MMO-Starter-Kit

Well thanks for pointing that out. I had actually seen it and planned to buy later just after figuring out how to create a huge world. So far no clue :confused:

Ok, but you know these features don’t exist in UE4 today. The question is whether anyone is working on them for the future because the source is available. The thread I showed you confirms others are interested in working on this, but its early days. Procedural everything is the holy grail of game design, so its going to attract a lot of attention especially if No Man’s sky and others are successful…

So what can you do meantime? None of this derails from you making a start. Just make a single planet to begin with and trial the MMO kit as was suggested. Or give up on UE4 altogether, and see if you can license an existing procedural engine, one that’s unproven perhaps, but may be open to negotiation. However, that option is unlikely to be as cheap as using UE4…

http://ltheory.com/https://youtube.com/watch?v=0tPdbLe3zx0
https://inovaestudios.com/Technology
https://youtube.com/watch?v=43eIjvoYfos
“Limit Theory: What Engine Does it Use?
We’ve written a custom engine from scratch using c++ and OpenGL. Having an intimate knowledge and control over the engine has allowed us to design it from the ground up to most efficiently support the level of procedural content generation that Limit Theory calls for. We’re also just crazy enthusiastic about game engine and graphics engine design…so it seemed like the natural choice!

We are actually trying to emulate the NMS engine through Irrlicht. All I can say is good luck. And:

  • Start with figuring out quads.

Good luck.

Interesting … How is that going, is the community pretty active? Also, how stable / buggy is Irrlicht?