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Thread: Lets make Lightmass EPIC (and understandable)

  1. #441
    1
    the second scene... i put floor and roof on 512 of resolution mesh to lightmap by walls i put 128.

    setup lightmass:

    0.4
    100
    4
    1

    lightmass ini the same like before test:

    NumHemisphereSamplesScale = 128 on quality medium

    time: 12:34 minutes.

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  2. #442
    0
    Have you tried 4.11 yet? These tests/resultsd might not be quite as useful after it releases. Great work though, I've been trying to avoid editing the Baselightmass but this is making me want to start doing it again!

  3. #443
    0
    I really don't get it how you guys do all of this, whenever I change something inside the .ini file. I see no changes..... I also have a way to large lightmap because of the weird black blotches, and I already tried the Hemisphere thing in the .ini file...

  4. #444
    0
    Sounds like a UV problem MeNnO539, can you post a picture of them?

  5. #445
    0
    Leave the ini alone guys, 4.11 + portals can achieve a very clean look. Artifacts most likely come from bad lightmaps or low lightmass settings (those in the editor itself).

  6. #446
    0
    nvm James, I found my problem. I never used a skylight before and now I used it and got the same results
    thanks for the help though!

    (and I didn't uncheck 'compress lightmaps')
    Last edited by MeNnO539; 04-18-2016 at 11:07 AM.

  7. #447
    0
    Today's results:

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  8. #448
    0
    Those look pretty good. You're getting a moire pattern in your fabric is your texture 1024x1024? Contact shadows could be a touch stronger I think.

    So, with 4.11 is this thread now moot? Are people changing the .ini still in 4.11?
    Last edited by RI3DVIZ; 04-20-2016 at 08:23 PM.

  9. #449
    0
    I am changing the ini file. Better results.

  10. #450

  11. #451
    0
    Infiltrator
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    it looks great !!

    thank you for the download, will have a look.

    from your experience, what are the most important elements to edit in the ini file of 4.11 ?

  12. #452
    0
    depends. for example when you have a big scene you need a lot more photons for a clean soft lighting.

    NumHemisphereSamples
    NumIrradianceCalculationPhotons
    DirectIrradiancePhotonDensity
    IndirectPhotonDensity
    IndirectIrradiancePhotonDensity

    i usually tweak these settings.

  13. #453
    0
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    i'll investigate that, thx

  14. #454
    0
    Hi jazvec. Great work!
    You use gray material or final materials for a final light building?

  15. #455
    0
    no, that would ruin the GI. the gray screenshots are in lighting only mode.

  16. #456
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jazvec View Post
    no, that would ruin the GI. the gray screenshots are in lighting only mode.
    Great work jazvec! What settings are you using for exposure / autoexposure? I always get really dark results using skylight only...

  17. #457
    0
    exposure bias 0.2. everything else is default.

  18. #458
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jazvec View Post
    exposure bias 0.2. everything else is default.
    So autoexposure enabled I guess. How the scene looks without autoexposure? Did you use skylight only?

  19. #459
    0
    i used bounce cards.

  20. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazvec View Post
    does'nt work.
    miss *uproject

  21. #461
    0
    theres an ArboriaFlat_v3.exe

    its not an unreal project file.

  22. #462
    0
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    yes but it's the error i get


    aah sorry. it doesn't work couse i use a LAN for the project.
    in the :/C dir now working perfectly

    can u share your pretty settings?
    thx so much!
    Last edited by coach; 04-27-2016 at 08:45 AM.

  23. #463
    0
    ini settings:

    NumHemisphereSamples=64
    NumIrradianceCalculationPhotons=3000
    DirectIrradiancePhotonDensity=1000
    IndirectPhotonDensity=8000
    IndirectIrradiancePhotonDensity=4000
    IrradiancePhotonSearchConeAngle=2

    world settings:

    static lighting: 0.15
    indirect bounces: 100
    lighting quality: 5
    lighting smoothness : 1.2
    production quality

  24. #464
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jazvec View Post
    ini settings:

    NumHemisphereSamples=64
    NumIrradianceCalculationPhotons=3000
    DirectIrradiancePhotonDensity=1000
    IndirectPhotonDensity=8000
    IndirectIrradiancePhotonDensity=4000
    IrradiancePhotonSearchConeAngle=2

    world settings:

    static lighting: 0.15
    indirect bounces: 100
    lighting quality: 5
    lighting smoothness : 1.2
    production quality
    can I ask your building time? with a waaaaaaay lighter tweak of the .ini I'm reaching about 1 day of building time and I'm struggling to understand where I'm doing wrong! yeah I'm using 4.10 instead of 4.11 but it really shouldn't be so long!

  25. #465
    0
    5820K@4.4GHz 3.30h.

    i recommend you start using 4.11. it supports embree which means faster build times and also portals are very handy for this kind of work.
    also turn off lightmap compression in world settings and dont use 4k lightmaps.

  26. #466
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jazvec View Post
    5820K@4.4GHz 3.30h.

    i recommend you start using 4.11. it supports embree which means faster build times and also portals are very handy for this kind of work.
    also turn off lightmap compression in world settings and dont use 4k lightmaps.
    I have an Intel i7-3970X 3.5ghz with 32gb ram and I'm using the 4.10 because when I started working on my project 4.11 was still a preview and so I'm trying to finish it with 4.10
    Basically I'm following all the threads here and in other forums about lights/lightmass/.ini files and-so-on, and I've tried to follow all the basic rules without exagerating (to say the truth my settings are way lower than all the setting I've read around):

    World setting
    Static lighting level scale: 0.3
    Num indirect lighting bounces: 20
    Indirect lighting quality: 10
    Indirect lighting smoothness: 1
    Lightmap compression: off
    Medium quality building light

    .ini setting (I've started from rafaeris ones and gone low)
    NumIrradianceCalculationPhotons = 4096
    NumHemisphereSamples = 64
    IndirectPhotonDensity = 500
    IndirectIrradiancePhotonDensity = 250
    IndirectPhotonSearchDistance = 180

    my lightmaps reach 2048 just for the floor and the ceiling (that are huge) 1024 just for some walls (really long ones) and then decades from 512 (for other walls and complicated items) to 64 (for bushes outdoor, really tiny/simple objects)

    Looking to my project with this setting I wouldn't say "it will take a lot" for the build, even just because I'm looking at your project, or at other projects, full of objects (which seem to be high quality ones), with way higher settings than mine, built in 3-5 hours (rafaeris' last is built in 40-50 minutes!)

    So that's why I'm struggling: what am I doing so wrong? which is the huge mistake I'm missing?

  27. #467
    0
    While on the topic of "Let's make Lightmass.. understandable' - Perhaps it's worth clearly covering in the same topic, the stages of Lightmass' build process (Emitting Photons, Collecting Photons, Processing Mappings, Exporting Results).
    I see this thread being the largest source of information covering lightmass, so having someone describe what's going on would be a good idea
    Alessa Baker,
    Tech Artist & Founder of Clockwork Anarchy.

    Shelling System - Measurement-based Blockout tool for Level Designers and Arch Viz Artists.

  28. #468
    0
    Hey guys, Im new in Unreal, I just download the example project in page1, I get this error "This project requires the Substance plugin", I know what is this, but its necesary for the project?, I can open the project but when I press the build buttom, render never start... Any suggestion?, is Subsustance necesary?, I can skip any object in the project to delete subsustance initial message?...

    Thanks in advance...

  29. #469
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Sythen View Post
    While on the topic of "Let's make Lightmass.. understandable' - Perhaps it's worth clearly covering in the same topic, the stages of Lightmass' build process (Emitting Photons, Collecting Photons, Processing Mappings, Exporting Results).
    I see this thread being the largest source of information covering lightmass, so having someone describe what's going on would be a good idea
    Nice thought Sythen. I was also thinking something similar in approach but different in sense of its implication like - It would be nice if we can see the Photon Gathering/Importance Sampling while Light Build (Like Vray Irradiance Samples or any other common renderer out in the market), that will give tremendous visual information for actual working of Lightmass and will eventually help in understanding and manipulating settings in Baselightmass somewhat easy. 4.11 is far more better then any previous Engine versions but still I feel like it lack basic tools for refining or finding bugs while light building, especially when it comes to tweaking Lightmass settings (Lightmass settings available in Engine UI are painfully simple). As I have reiterated many times before that simple settings of Lightmass are perfect for quick setup but may become major hindrance when it comes to adjusting or manipulating it for realistic light build, Ultimately there is no other option but to jump in BaseLightmass for Final Built. Portals made a major impact for small scenes now, simply putting it solves 90% of the bugs but for complex scenes we still require some kind of editing in BaseLightmass to get that super clean look.

    It would be nice if we can see some more features in Engine UI itself regarding Lightmass, More detailed settings related to Photon Density, Irradiance Samples, Irradiance Radius and so on with ample explanations in Engine Docs for Noobs like me and not only for hardcore programmers out there (I think Engine Help Documents need serious update regarding the Lightmass Settings and Portal help).

    Lighting Quality presets are really helpful but If we can get something similar for Lightmass settings also like - Expert Mode or Advanced Mode - Giving users enough settings to fully control the behavior and intricacies involved.

  30. #470
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Raghu View Post
    Nice thought Sythen. I was also thinking something similar in approach but different in sense of its implication like - It would be nice if we can see the Photon Gathering/Importance Sampling while Light Build (Like Vray Irradiance Samples or any other common renderer out in the market), that will give tremendous visual information for actual working of Lightmass and will eventually help in understanding and manipulating settings in Baselightmass somewhat easy. 4.11 is far more better then any previous Engine versions but still I feel like it lack basic tools for refining or finding bugs while light building, especially when it comes to tweaking Lightmass settings (Lightmass settings available in Engine UI are painfully simple). As I have reiterated many times before that simple settings of Lightmass are perfect for quick setup but may become major hindrance when it comes to adjusting or manipulating it for realistic light build, Ultimately there is no other option but to jump in BaseLightmass for Final Built. Portals made a major impact for small scenes now, simply putting it solves 90% of the bugs but for complex scenes we still require some kind of editing in BaseLightmass to get that super clean look.

    It would be nice if we can see some more features in Engine UI itself regarding Lightmass, More detailed settings related to Photon Density, Irradiance Samples, Irradiance Radius and so on with ample explanations in Engine Docs for Noobs like me and not only for hardcore programmers out there (I think Engine Help Documents need serious update regarding the Lightmass Settings and Portal help).

    Lighting Quality presets are really helpful but If we can get something similar for Lightmass settings also like - Expert Mode or Advanced Mode - Giving users enough settings to fully control the behavior and intricacies involved.

    Here's the thing you shouldn't have to get that deep into tweaking to get good results! The render engine needs to be easier to use not harder, I'm no expert but I have used many engines and this is the most difficult to get right. In the real world of paying jobs in Architecture you don't usually have days to tweak lightmass settings, for video game makers it's different those are usually long term projects. I don't know why we don't have something like "samples" which seems to be standard nomenclature for render engines - e.g. turn up the samples and get better quality (longer render times too!).
    Last edited by RI3DVIZ; 05-16-2016 at 09:36 AM.

  31. #471
    0
    Samaritan
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    107
    Hi all !

    I found a case that I can't manage to fix :

    a simple room lit by a point light with a window and a cube on the outside.






    After baking, there is a huge light bounce between the outer wall and the cube :



    Here's the scene if someone want to take a look : https://www.dropbox.com/s/y93kx0a73ux1wkh/Lightmass_Leak.7z?dl=0
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    WIP : ArchViz / Lighting : https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...chViz-Lighting
    WIP : Koola's stuff : https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...-Koola-s-stuff
    Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/user/koooolalala/videos
    Flickr : https://www.flickr.com/photos/99646627@N03
    HK Devblog : http://hk-devblog.com/

  32. #472
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by koola View Post
    Hi all !

    I found a case that I can't manage to fix :

    a simple room lit by a point light with a window and a cube on the outside.






    After baking, there is a huge light bounce between the outer wall and the cube :



    Here's the scene if someone want to take a look : https://www.dropbox.com/s/y93kx0a73ux1wkh/Lightmass_Leak.7z?dl=0
    I Just rebuild the lighting on your level for testing and there are no light leaks what so ever, even I am not able to replicate the error.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Raghu; 05-17-2016 at 06:59 AM.

  33. #473
    0
    Samaritan
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
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    Thank for the test.

    This is really weird, I just see I don't have this problem with high/medium/preview setting, just with production setting.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    WIP : ArchViz / Lighting : https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...chViz-Lighting
    WIP : Koola's stuff : https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...-Koola-s-stuff
    Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/user/koooolalala/videos
    Flickr : https://www.flickr.com/photos/99646627@N03
    HK Devblog : http://hk-devblog.com/

  34. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by koola View Post
    Thank for the test.

    This is really weird, I just see I don't have this problem with high/medium/preview setting, just with production setting.
    I confirm the leak in v 4.11.2, and only with production settings

  35. #475
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    If we play with "Cube" position (ie, moving it away from "Bloc", even slightly), or its rotation on Z axis, the "leak" effect tends to change and/or disappear.
    Could it be related to the increase in the amount/distance of Light that Bounces (better know as the Troutman Effect) in prod mode ?
    That could explain why it appears only with the production settings.

  36. #476
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    baselightmass.ini
    in prod quality settings :

    NumIndirectPhotonsScale=8 -> NumIndirectPhotonsScale=4 and the leak effect is gone (same value than the one for "high" settings)

    (then maybe the "NumImportanceSearchPhotonsScale" should be changed accordingly, from 3 back to 2 (same value than the one for "high" settings))

  37. #477
    0
    Samaritan
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
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    The problem is also fixed with NumIndirectPhotonPathsScale value set to 3 (instead of 2) ... but if you move/scale the box the leak is back.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    WIP : ArchViz / Lighting : https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...chViz-Lighting
    WIP : Koola's stuff : https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...-Koola-s-stuff
    Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/user/koooolalala/videos
    Flickr : https://www.flickr.com/photos/99646627@N03
    HK Devblog : http://hk-devblog.com/

  38. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by koola View Post
    The problem is also fixed with NumIndirectPhotonPathsScale value set to 3 (instead of 2) ... but if you move/scale the box the leak is back.
    Confirmed.

    only NumIndirectPhotonsScale=4 seems to solve this issue, even if the box is moved/scaled.
    Last edited by Ptyx; 05-17-2016 at 01:47 PM.

  39. #479
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Raghu View Post
    Nice thought Sythen. I was also thinking something similar in approach but different in sense of its implication like - It would be nice if we can see the Photon Gathering/Importance Sampling while Light Build (Like Vray Irradiance Samples or any other common renderer out in the market), that will give tremendous visual information for actual working of Lightmass and will eventually help in understanding and manipulating settings in Baselightmass somewhat easy. 4.11 is far more better then any previous Engine versions but still I feel like it lack basic tools for refining or finding bugs while light building, especially when it comes to tweaking Lightmass settings (Lightmass settings available in Engine UI are painfully simple). As I have reiterated many times before that simple settings of Lightmass are perfect for quick setup but may become major hindrance when it comes to adjusting or manipulating it for realistic light build, Ultimately there is no other option but to jump in BaseLightmass for Final Built. Portals made a major impact for small scenes now, simply putting it solves 90% of the bugs but for complex scenes we still require some kind of editing in BaseLightmass to get that super clean look.

    It would be nice if we can see some more features in Engine UI itself regarding Lightmass, More detailed settings related to Photon Density, Irradiance Samples, Irradiance Radius and so on with ample explanations in Engine Docs for Noobs like me and not only for hardcore programmers out there (I think Engine Help Documents need serious update regarding the Lightmass Settings and Portal help).

    Lighting Quality presets are really helpful but If we can get something similar for Lightmass settings also like - Expert Mode or Advanced Mode - Giving users enough settings to fully control the behavior and intricacies involved.
    My guess is that it will become a reality soon enough. Epic is realizing their engine has a lot of potential outside the gaming world and they are adjusting. Have you watched the Unreal Engine Enterprise twitch stream? They talk about that. I think lots of new solutions has been developped for the Mclaren car customizer and soon we'll see more and more improvement for architects, designers, etc! Exciting times!

  40. #480
    0
    so guys.. i still dont get it. can somebody summarize please? we are using portals which came with 4.11 and anything addition to that in .ini file or not? everbody takes different approaches i guess.. i just dont want to overkill and weeks of rendering lol.. what is the "enough" settings for quality now?

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