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Thread: Realtime Dynamic GI + Reflections + AO + Emissive plugin - AHR

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by max.pareschi View Post
    Limited applications, very narrow focus. The technique is very nice, but can only be made possible on very managed environments. It's not suitable for general purposes.
    You cannot use that NOW in open ended maps for instance. Applications would be best suited in somewhat enclosed spaces or in very sparsely populated scenes (as the game you linked)
    Search posts by DanielW and SVOGI to understand better about it, and why it's not currently possible in a general engine as UE4.
    Hopefully it will scale better on future hardware though, so it's not entirely without merits.

    In any case mods opened a thread for GI discussions, so let's talk about this over there!
    Well it's all good, but game, you are referring to, is player driven. Players can build anything, anywhere, in any capacity (;. So technique, should scale to actually densely populated environments.

    So I think, celverly managin voxels around, should allow to scale technique to any scene. You don't need to voxelize everything, you don't need to do it every frame.
    https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniside View Post
    Well it's all good, but game, you are referring to, is player driven. Players can build anything, anywhere, in any capacity (;. So technique, should scale to actually densely populated environments.

    So I think, celverly managin voxels around, should allow to scale technique to any scene. You don't need to voxelize everything, you don't need to do it every frame.
    Seems cool!
    That's probably where the cascades comes into play, where far planes are managed more with ambient terms and close stuff is traced inside voxel space.
    I'd love to know about the max object budget the devs are gonna impose to the player, or the culling schemes to not let the ps4 crawl under the pressure.

    @RyanTorant
    I am really started to wonder if you could theoretically encode the tracing solution and get lightmaps out of that. Replacing Lightmass with a more modern renderer seems like a dream.
    That could also be used for ToD, where you basically recapture and accumulate lightmap info every ten seconds or so, and use one full second to build the next step to be interpolated over.
    Or maybe support destructibles by having the tracing happen only on geometry that's been modified, saving performance that way. You could use already existent gbuffer masks and constraint the tracing.
    What about ray marching in participating media? Do you plan to support this as well?

  3. #43
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    Participating media is already supported, as it supports tracing transparency

  4. #44
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    That's nice! I'll wait for updates then.

  5. #45
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    hey everybody, just a quick update. Tomorrow I have the last exam, so expect a lot of updates this week

  6. #46
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    Cool. Good luck with your exam!

  7. #47
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    Well, my motherboard died, so, yeah, updates will be a little slower than expected. Should have everything fixed in the next few days. Hope so

  8. #48
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    Looks very promising! This is the only thing that UE4 really lacks over UE3 accept for the Movie Texture support but supposedly that will be back in in 4.5

  9. #49
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    This looks so promising, I can't wait to test it out! My anticipation is up! :)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniside View Post
    1 bounce doesn't really cut, but two bounes would be awesome, and three bounces would just amazing.
    Jesus man, you don't want much do you ?

    On topic: Amazing work, I'm not surprised that somebody took up the challenge but it's great that you have and have managed to do so very quickly.

  11. #51
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    Everything working now ( it think. My windows installation is doing some funny things, but will cross fingers and hope it remains stable), so I'm starting to work on AHR right now.

    I decided to go and modify the source directly, as I't should be easier for me given I have to add a few things at various stages on the rendering pipeline. That comes with a question. Considering that this will take time, and Epic updates UE quite often, what will be the best way to keep my code up to date will also working on AHR? I don't have a lot of experience working on a team, and almost none at Git. Will I have used for quite a while now TFS, Git is a totally diferent beast. I code mostly by my self, and never something as massive as Unreal Engine. Some help will be more than welcome

    Regarding AHR, I'm gonna re-work the whole voxel update code, as I have a new pipeline now that should reduce the number of objects that need to be voxelized each frame to just the dynamic ones and the ones that where outside the grid bounds on the prev frame and now are inside. Also, on the raytracing side I worked out a way to keep raytracing on the pixel that hadn't moved, so that the lighting gets progressively refined. On moving things lighting quality won't improve at all over the old raytracing, but given that they move (gotta love motion blur) it shouldn't be a big problem, and the other things will look much better.
    Just a few numbers. If, for example, some part of the scene hadn't move a lot on the last 8 frames, which is not that impossible, and assuming we are doing 4 rays per frame, we end up at 32 rays, all at the cost of 4. At 60 FPS, 8 frames are just 0.13 seconds.
    Still, that's all theoretical for now, hadn't got into making those changes. Everything is on a notebook and a whiteboard
    Last edited by RyanTorant; 10-09-2014 at 06:30 PM.

  12. #52
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    Great to see that this is still being worked on. Looking forward to see more.

  13. #53
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    Well, I should be finishing the preliminaries over this week, and by friday starting to get into the UE4 code. I'm allready thinking how to integrate it though, and given I have that old test implementation I did, I can try and take a few ideas from there.
    BTW, given UE allready have a robust reflections system, I disabled reflections, and got a nice performance boost. Getting arround 30 - 40 fps (16 - 17 ms raytracing time) on my 750 Ti.

  14. #54
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    This looks outstanding, although you said it would be free I would be willing to pay for a plugin version of this as it becomes production-ready (and I'm just a hobbyist). However, I believe someone mentioned above that it would be difficult or impossible to create a plugin for this (because it digs too deeply into the guts of the rendering code?) -- are you aware of any limitations regarding this? I know very little about the low-level tech, but I would think Epic would love to support exactly this sort of plugin to allay some of the community disappointment regarding the removal of SVOGI.

    Regarding keeping your code up to date with offical Epic releases, Mike Fricker mentioned in a recent Twitch stream that improvements to the plugin system are in the works, specifically mentioning that they're working on how to keep plugins in sync with official code releases (Q&A at the end of this video around 58:30):



    Maybe worth starting a new thread under the Engine Source & Github section, or even reaching out to Epic's devs regarding their plans?

    In any case, I wish you luck, this is looking incredible!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by acatalept View Post
    This looks outstanding, although you said it would be free I would be willing to pay for a plugin version of this as it becomes production-ready (and I'm just a hobbyist). However, I believe someone mentioned above that it would be difficult or impossible to create a plugin for this (because it digs too deeply into the guts of the rendering code?) -- are you aware of any limitations regarding this? I know very little about the low-level tech, but I would think Epic would love to support exactly this sort of plugin to allay some of the community disappointment regarding the removal of SVOGI.

    Regarding keeping your code up to date with offical Epic releases, Mike Fricker mentioned in a recent Twitch stream that improvements to the plugin system are in the works, specifically mentioning that they're working on how to keep plugins in sync with official code releases (Q&A at the end of this video around 58:30):



    Maybe worth starting a new thread under the Engine Source & Github section, or even reaching out to Epic's devs regarding their plans?

    In any case, I wish you luck, this is looking incredible!
    Thanks!
    I will be working directly on the source really, and when is a bit more stable, will talk with Epic about getting it into the main branch, even if it's as a WIP.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanTorant View Post
    Well, I should be finishing the preliminaries over this week, and by friday starting to get into the UE4 code. I'm allready thinking how to integrate it though, and given I have that old test implementation I did, I can try and take a few ideas from there.
    BTW, given UE allready have a robust reflections system, I disabled reflections, and got a nice performance boost. Getting arround 30 - 40 fps (16 - 17 ms raytracing time) on my 750 Ti.
    Noooooo....please dont! Sorry^^ Yeah, the reflection system is quite nice, but I (for myself, dont want to talk for others here) am actually interested because it DOES cover everything! The reflection system in UE works, but SSR are really limited for accurate reflections and the probes bleed like hell if you have interiors and outdoors mixed

    But yeah...there just is no solution that has everything I guess^^

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus51 View Post
    Noooooo....please dont! Sorry^^ Yeah, the reflection system is quite nice, but I (for myself, dont want to talk for others here) am actually interested because it DOES cover everything! The reflection system in UE works, but SSR are really limited for accurate reflections and the probes bleed like hell if you have interiors and outdoors mixed

    But yeah...there just is no solution that has everything I guess^^
    Well, as I said is just a compiler switch. If there's interest for it, I surely will work on that! Want to get GI working correctly first though.

  18. #58
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    First post woo.

    I am usually a lurker around here, but this was impressive. I will be keeping my eye on this one for sure!
    My project relies a lot on dynamic contant, and dynamic GI is a feature I have been hoping will get some love! So, thank you very much for working on this, it will be very helpful to me and many others.

  19. #59
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    Just to keep the thread alive, I'm still working on this. but sadly Borderlands : The Pre-Sequel is taking more of my time that I had expected . Anyway, should start to make the changes to the source this weekend.

  20. #60
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    That's the gamer's curse man

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by max.pareschi View Post
    That's the gamer's curse man
    Give this guy a cookie! Exactly man, is a curse.
    Now, getting serious, I plan to test the new voxelization pipeline on my demo first, and then start to work on the UE source. I actually haven't finished it, but it shouldn't be that hard (well, hope so...)

  22. #62
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    Just wanted to say that I'm still working on this, but I'm going trough some major reworks right now, and because of that advance on the integration side is going a bit slow. Still, hope to have some screens to show somewhere along next week.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanTorant View Post
    Just wanted to say that I'm still working on this, but I'm going trough some major reworks right now, and because of that advance on the integration side is going a bit slow. Still, hope to have some screens to show somewhere along next week.
    Looking forward to it!

  24. #64
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    Subbing this thread.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Errvald View Post
    Subbing this thread.
    I'm not an English speaker, so you caught me a little off guard. What did you mean by that ?

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanTorant View Post
    I'm not an English speaker, so you caught me a little off guard. What did you mean by that ?
    Meaning he is subscribing to your thread.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacky View Post
    Meaning he is subscribing to your thread.
    Oops, that was a bit embarrassing... Anyway, thanks for the info
    I actually got to implement the changes I talked about a while back( well, some of them), and I don't need one of the Voxel grids anymore, so 512 Mb less right there. The only thing was that I had to give up emissive materials , but that's unacceptable, so I need to add a few more bits on the Voxel grid, and that's gonna increase memory usage.

    EDIT: Solved it, wasn't compiling some files
    Last edited by RyanTorant; 10-29-2014 at 12:38 PM.

  28. #68
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    How's it going man? Good luck on polishing it, looking forward to updates!

  29. #69
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    Well, yesterday I started to get my hands into the engine source. I already have blocked put the changes I need to make, so shouldn't be too long until I have some screens. Gotta give a warning though, development will be hampered this weekend by Evolve's Big Alpha

  30. #70
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    I'm so looking forward to this! I have two questions about your technique:

    1. How do you expect it to handle transparent materials like glass? One problem that LPV in UE4 suffers from is that it crashes when trying to do transparencies (unless disabled). Although, that could just be a bug.
    2. What version of UE4 do you plan on it releasing it for? Will it be able to intereact with some of the new features (i.e screen space SSS, ray trace soft shadows, DFAO)?

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanN View Post
    I'm so looking forward to this! I have two questions about your technique:

    1. How do you expect it to handle transparent materials like glass? One problem that LPV in UE4 suffers from is that it crashes when trying to do transparencies (unless disabled). Although, that could just be a bug.
    2. What version of UE4 do you plan on it releasing it for? Will it be able to intereact with some of the new features (i.e screen space SSS, ray trace soft shadows, DFAO)?
    First of all, while the techinque itself is quite developed, I'm still on the early stages when it comes to UE4 integration. So no way I'm talking about versions right now
    I will add the global illumination to the direct lighting buffer, which is quite early in the pipeline, so most things should work.
    In theory, transparency and participating media, such as smoke and fog could be lit by indirect bounces, but that will require me to re-work some parts, and I want to get it working first.
    Lastly, AHR supersedes DFAO, as rendering AO doesn't have any performance penalty over just computing indirect lighting, and the quality is about the same.

  32. #72
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    Excellent work. One notice though, why shadows do flicker very much when you changed the direction of sunlight at 0:44 : shadows cast on the ground and especially the spheres? Don't you use Ray Traced Distance Field Shadows ? I know reflections and shadows can be very tricky when applied on round objects or spheres but still this is very noticable. I hope you correct it. Looking forward to try your awesome work.

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLASTICA-MAN View Post
    Excellent work. One notice though, why shadows do flicker very much when you changed the direction of sunlight at 0:44 : shadows cast on the ground and especially the spheres? Don't you use Ray Traced Distance Field Shadows ? I know reflections and shadows can be very tricky when applied on round objects or spheres but still this is very noticable. I hope you correct it. Looking forward to try your awesome work.
    The demo on the video uses just plain old shadow mapping, because I built it from scratch, is not based on any engine. Still, I can't see what you mean. Do you mean the shadows from the sun or something caused by the GI? If it's the sun's shadows, I agree that my implementation is ugly, but then again, is just simple shadow map with one buffer and 8 taps PCF.

  34. #74
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    Yes I meant the shadows created by the sun. But with Ray Traced Distance Field Shadows in UE4, you won't have problems with it right?

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLASTICA-MAN View Post
    Yes I meant the shadows created by the sun. But with Ray Traced Distance Field Shadows in UE4, you won't have problems with it right?
    You're probably right. Still, no need for raytraced shadows, a proper csm implementation doesn't have that problems, or at least are well hidden. My shadow implementation was as basic as possible, was interested on GI.

  36. #76
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    How many bounces do you have? one or 2? Does it work with dynamic meshes or objects or characters? Also how faar can you apply it in open environment with mountain like settings?

    If you can, can you please tell me what is the difference between your technic and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1oVl2d01Q
    http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/vxgi/technology

    https://developer.nvidia.com/gi-works (Dynamic specular is good in the dinosaur scene).


    And this : https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?50658-Geomerics-Enlighten-Finally-supports-UE4

    And this (made using Cryengine though) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PCnkJBvIrY

    You can download the demo and try it , look in the description and see hsi channel for other videos. I noticed that the reflections caused by those emissive balls when applied on the spheres are blocky and look like vulgar pixels.
    Name:  ugly GI.png
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    I hope we won't get those artifacts with your plugin. He has 2 bounces though. The Tomorrow Children uses a tech with 3 bounces and 16 light tracing directions per voxel. You can read about it here:

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/08/12/the-tomorrow-children-announced-as-playstation-4-exclusive-trailer-and-screenshots-released/

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/08/13/ps4-exclusive-the-tomorrow-children-uses-new-ray-tracing-tech-with-real-reflections-more-info-shared/

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/09/03/ps4-exclusive-the-tomorrow-children-shows-its-amazing-lighting-technology-with-new-wip-screenshots/

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/09/03/ps4s-powerful-async-compute-tech-allows-the-tomorrow-childrens-developer-to-save-5-ms-per-frame/

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/10/24/the-tomorrows-childrens-impressive-tech-on-ps4-showcased-by-new-videos/

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/10/25/the-tomorrow-children-on-ps4-lots-of-info-shared-uncharted-4-and-more-to-use-similar-lighting-tech/

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/10/29/ps4-exclusive-the-tomorrow-children-gets-more-info-on-its-impressive-tech-and-gameplay/

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/10/31/the-tomorrow-children-uses-3-types-of-anti-aliasing-on-ps4-1080p-video-released-alpha-info-next-week/

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=918421

    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/10/24/the-tomorrow-children-3-ways-to-create-striking-ps4-visuals/

    They are using Octane Render :http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=887777

    You can download PDF here : http://fumufumu.q-games.com/archives/2014_09.php#000934

    To be honest, I am very interested in your tech since it has the best ratio quality/performance. Keep the good work man

    Edit: GDC 2015 PDF is out: http://fumufumu.q-games.com/archives/TheTechnologyOfTomorrowsChildrenFinal.pdf
    Last edited by Nudlegaru; 04-09-2015 at 02:45 PM.

  37. #77
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    Sorry for taking this long, been having little spare time. Is one bounce, but could be extended to multiple bounces. Performance is probably a problem tough.
    At start it will work only for dynamic and static objects, but particles and others could be added later.
    Regarding NVIDIA's technique, they are quite similar, with the fundamental difference that I use raytracing instead of conetracing. I also have a way more simple voxelization pipeline and I use just one binary Voxel grid, the irradiance gets reconstructed using some dark magic that I can't talk about for now

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanTorant View Post
    Sorry for taking this long, been having little spare time. Is one bounce, but could be extended to multiple bounces. Performance is probably a problem tough.
    At start it will work only for dynamic and static objects, but particles and others could be added later.
    Regarding NVIDIA's technique, they are quite similar, with the fundamental difference that I use raytracing instead of conetracing. I also have a way more simple voxelization pipeline and I use just one binary Voxel grid, the irradiance gets reconstructed using some dark magic that I can't talk about for now
    Haha cool! Looking forward to try out your version

  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanTorant View Post
    Sorry for taking this long, been having little spare time. Is one bounce, but could be extended to multiple bounces. Performance is probably a problem tough.
    At start it will work only for dynamic and static objects, but particles and others could be added later.
    Regarding NVIDIA's technique, they are quite similar, with the fundamental difference that I use raytracing instead of conetracing. I also have a way more simple voxelization pipeline and I use just one binary Voxel grid, the irradiance gets reconstructed using some dark magic that I can't talk about for now
    Question.
    Wouldn't Cone tracing (or rather Sphere Tracing), improve performance ? This way you could probably get away with smaller amount of traces.
    https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniside View Post
    Question.
    Wouldn't Cone tracing (or rather Sphere Tracing), improve performance ? This way you could probably get away with smaller amount of traces.
    I'm not sure really, as the few demos I tested about Voxel cone tracing where slower than AHR, sometimes AHR running even twice as fast. It might have to do with the way tracing works, using a binary grid to do the tracing. On the perfect case( a ray going on a straight Voxel line up) each sample loads 32 voxels

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