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View Poll Results: Would you like for and infinite Ocean plane like CryEngine to be added to UE4?

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  • That would be EPIC!

    271 83.38%
  • Would be nice

    35 10.77%
  • No This should be 3rd party

    17 5.23%
  • Not sure

    2 0.62%
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Thread: infinite ocean plane system

  1. #41
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    couldn't have send it better my self. There are some types that love to tinker and that is what they enjoy doing and they feel that everyone should have the same point of view. While the vast majority wants something that just works.


    I don't want to create a water system, I want to use a water system. That is the fundamental difference in view points here.

    Were not saying that anything that should take away form your ability to implement something of you own. But there should be a built in option. some of use are designers not developers. hell some are just artist. There should be options for all types.

    But some of you guys have to drop the attitude that we should all have the knowledge and/or inclination for integrate 3-5 or more 3rd party systems. and make them work together Just to get to a starting point of a decent ocean system. and that is we don't we somehow shouldn't be here in the first place or that it has to be one way or the other. Just because there is an ocean system doesn't mean that you can create your own. That is just ridiculous, There seems be an attitude of it has to be one way or the other.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJamsh View Post
    A lot of this stuff is achievable with content that already exists amongst the Community, we have Impressive Vertex Shaders, a way to do Bouyancy and Object Interaction, a fluid-surface plug-in a plug-in for a more simple ocean and there are plenty of techniques you can use to get good looking water that carry over from earlier incarnations of Unreal.

    In short, I don't think it's a matter of urgency simply because by doing adequate research you can get better looking results than anything in the example content on marketplace so far.
    What sorcery is this plugin + plugin + plugin = water system you're talking about?

    We have Terrain, simple Sky-Sun...Water/Ocean totally forgotten.

  3. #43
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    Well, at this point it is almost 90% for it so...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Barnette View Post
    Well, at this point it is almost 90% for it so...
    Yes there is no doubt if this was a trello card it be turning red now.

    @Epic when will you support water?

  5. #45
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    Weeks and days later our crew has been working on a material and the water looks like its from a 2002 game, its awful looking. I'm beginning to think we just aren't smart enough to figure it out, because if its this complicated to make an ocean I just wonder how hard it will be to make a nice flowing river with a waterfall in it. All these 3rd party plugins are really hard to figure out and keep up with all the different versions of UE4. I would be so grateful to see a video tutorial from an awesome teacher like Zak from start to finish, making an ocean to a river with a waterfall in it.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainDew View Post
    Weeks and days later our crew has been working on a material and the water looks like its from a 2002 game, its awful looking. I'm beginning to think we just aren't smart enough to figure it out, because if its this complicated to make an ocean I just wonder how hard it will be to make a nice flowing river with a waterfall in it. All these 3rd party plugins are really hard to figure out and keep up with all the different versions of UE4. I would be so grateful to see a video tutorial from an awesome teacher like Zak from start to finish, making an ocean to a river with a waterfall in it.
    Yes me and my team FINALY got some basic wave behavior yesterday after following this tutorial. https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Render_Target_Lookup
    While i can`t say its the best tutorial i have read, a lot was left to guess, but it worked.

    Before this my team mate spent over 1 week trying to get water to wok.
    And there are stile a HUGE amount to do, if it ever is going to look good.

    @Epic we need water, when will we get water?

  7. #47
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    Hey friends!

    Thanks, guys, for the request. I've been discussing how blueprints and materials can be used to make water/ocean effects in UE4 internally with some of our rendering guys, and its actually on our internal content examples backlog as something we'd like to get out to you guys at some point. Also, we are currently looking into improving our feature request process, so stay tuned!

    Chance.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCode View Post
    Yes me and my team FINALY got some basic wave behavior yesterday after following this tutorial. https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Render_Target_Lookup
    While i can`t say its the best tutorial i have read, a lot was left to guess, but it worked.

    Before this my team mate spent over 1 week trying to get water to wok.
    And there are stile a HUGE amount to do, if it ever is going to look good.

    @Epic we need water, when will we get water?
    I'm thinking of putting out a tutorial for mathematically based water to replace the Render Target version. The performance is a bit lacking in that implementation.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handkor View Post
    I'm thinking of putting out a tutorial for mathematically based water to replace the Render Target version. The performance is a bit lacking in that implementation.
    Please do, we greatly apprichiate the efort and help.
    Cheers mate!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance Ivey View Post
    Hey friends!

    Thanks, guys, for the request. I've been discussing how blueprints and materials can be used to make water/ocean effects in UE4 internally with some of our rendering guys, and its actually on our internal content examples backlog as something we'd like to get out to you guys at some point. Also, we are currently looking into improving our feature request process, so stay tuned!

    Chance.
    Thank you, there are so many threads on this right now, if water is in the backlog then it should be put in front now IMO.

  11. #51
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    Outstanding hopefully that has let you know perhaps it's priority needs to bumped up a few notches

  12. #52
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    Samaritan
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCode View Post
    Please do, we greatly apprichiate the efort and help.
    Cheers mate!
    Done https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBWLfpm0K0o

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handkor View Post
    Wow this is great i just seen it and now i got 8 houers of work before i can check.
    This shows how the water and boyency is done?

    Thanks again, you the man. !

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJamsh View Post
    A lot of this stuff is achievable with content that already exists amongst the Community, we have Impressive Vertex Shaders, a way to do Bouyancy and Object Interaction, a fluid-surface plug-in a plug-in for a more simple ocean and there are plenty of techniques you can use to get good looking water that carry over from earlier incarnations of Unreal.

    In short, I don't think it's a matter of urgency simply because by doing adequate research you can get better looking results than anything in the example content on marketplace so far.
    I think the general atitude here is that we should have the necesary calculations ready and that we should only have to concentrate on the look and feel.
    So maybe it was a breez for you but in a 2014 there should be no need to do this from scratch, it should be out of the box ready.

    Think about it 71% of our planet is coverd in water at some point you will need a ocean, and Epic do not support it atm.
    They do a great job with the sample content but for some reson they are totoly ignoring this.

  15. #55
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    You guys do realise WHY there isn't a water system in place that does ALL the things I listed in my post "just like that" right? Because it's bloody hard.

    To stay in-line with UE4's features, it would have to be transparently compatible with all the devices and hardware it ships too, while also being incredibly efficient. If you want to simulate all these magical bits of game dev wizardry, that's not going to happen quickly. I see the point about already having landscape and sky/sun tools, but think about this: both of those are easy to simulate and will have identical features wherever you use them. They have solid collisions, they don't move, they're mostly flat, they don't have panning materials and complex simulations of fluid dynamics. Water is different to Landscapes in every way. It's one of the most challenging rendering aspects of any game, and usually gets a considerable chunk of development time and attention and this is why there are so many resources out there for research into how to approach different techniques.

    How do you decide what features people can and can't have, and then how do you let them make changes to that? There are so many different ways to do water or fluid surfaces that there is not one solution that will suit all purposes, which is what I fear everybody wants. That doesn't exist guys.

    When Marketplace goes live, I'm sure plenty of people in the community will upload their liquid-based creations for developers and enthusiasts to ponder over and port to their projects, but each one is going to be very different and have it's own limitations. An implementation from Epic would be no different in that respect, and all that development time will be put into something that already exists if your prepared to do a bit of work. It's still early days for UE4, but I bet my left nut ha Unity has a few solutions on it's own Marketplace to choose from? UE will be no different sooner or later.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Barnette View Post
    While the vast majority wants something that just works. I want to use a water system. .
    I understand, but at the same time that sounds more like a modding workflow, not an engine/development workflow.

    Maybe I'm being a bit pedantic, but a bit of extra work and background reading will show that this is all possible already. Imagine the satisfaction of having your own adjustable-on-the-fly water system. With tools like Blueprint, Engine Source and the Material Editor anything is possible Anyone could learn a lot more about game development as a whole just tackling a good water system/shader yourselves!

    Edit: Adding to this, if I get a good chance this weekend and get comfortable enough with my own voice, I'll do a good video on water techniques in UE4, and how to actually implement them.
    Last edited by TheJamsh; 08-15-2014 at 03:36 AM.

  16. #56
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    That be great we need some detailed noob friendly tuts on this from start to finish no rush.
    I know there are some tuts on it allready but they are not to detailed.

    Also i think the main resson for you argumenting agains out of the box water / Ocean is becuse you done it allready.
    You can say its going to be diferent from game to game, but come on lets be honest Water/ Ocean is just that Water/ Ocean.

    It moves it foams, you float, thats water thats what we want, and Epic realy ignoreing us on this.
    They say stay tuned, but at no point are they explaining way its taking so long?
    Way its not in yet, am not talking about a infinete plane here am talking about just the look and behavior of it.

  17. #57
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    Heh, I think the most funny things on this forum are Road problem and water problem.

    People who demand this very loud and a bit strange. Epic answered to your request multiple times and said they will work on this, they even mentioned this thread on last livestream, but you are keep posting "...and Epic realy ignoring us on this." almost every day.

    It moves it foams, you float, thats water thats what we want
    • Is it possible to implement good water model before implementation of parallel rendering?
    • Engine is designed to deal with every type of game, not tps/fps only. Some sort low-detailed water should exist for distant view for strategy-typed games.
    • Engine is designed to deal with varies of platforms. What to do with water on different mobile platforms? People don't want simple plane with nice shader.
    • Should be water physic tied to other physic entities of engine or not? If yes - how?
    • Should be water reflection(Color) tied to global illumination(how it works in real world) or controllable color is enough?
    • Should be foam just an another layer of textures using height maps and world positiong or physics generated? How to handle foam generation for distant view, should it be generated at all or not,
    • Caustics exist only under particular physical circumstances, should we use some calculations to use caustics maps or "Caustics everywhere despite absence of light emitter" from CryEngine is okay for people?


    They say stay tuned, but at no point are they explaining why its taking so long?
    A week ago they answered and yesterday they confirmed. You really want to call this "so long"?
    You demand a complex physical water system with advanced rendering options like foam and caustics for multiplatform, mobile included all-genre oriented engine and wondering "Why it taking so long" after ONE WEEK?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCode View Post
    You can say its going to be diferent from game to game, but come on lets be honest Water/ Ocean is just that Water/ Ocean.
    That assumption is grossly misguided, the problem is that water is never just water. You have different materials for inside, outside, shallow, deep, reflectivity, raging waves calm waves, NO waves, hell procedural waves even with a fluid-surface actor. Why would you simulate ocean waves on a puddle for example? Why would you simulate depth fog, or depth masking, or foam generation etc.

    Water simulations are VERY complex, and VERY processor-intensive. There are also various methods for simulating JUST waves for example, Gertsner, Beaufort, Displacement. Some will run on low-end platforms, some won't and will slow you to a crawl. Now you want to simulate buoyancy too, you have to figure out what waves your simulating, how your doing it (vertex or pixel shader, or even animation), then pass that to every object in the scene that is supposed to float. Then what if you want water particles? What if you want the water to be gloopy instead of flowing, and simulate different degrees of surface tension?

    Now you want it to be dynamic and affected by the weather, how do you simulate that? Well you need to get the weather first, but what if you simulate weather differently to what's expected? This is why there is never going to be a one-stop answer to all liquid simulation solutions. I could go on and on for hours, and this is why it takes so long.

    Like I said, I'll try and do a very detailed video with tutorials and snippets of things people have done, but it may take a fortnight or so.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeOrb View Post
    You demand a complex physical water system with advanced rendering options like foam and caustics for multiplatform, mobile included all-genre oriented engine and wondering "Why it taking so long" after ONE WEEK?
    You need to calm down a bit, nobody is asking for Crysis water on all platforms ( even though crysis water runs in all platforms minus mobile since 2007 ).

    Some things will never work on mobiles.
    Last edited by Errvald; 08-15-2014 at 07:51 AM.

  20. #60
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    Luminary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Errvald View Post
    You need to calm down a bit, nobody is asking for Crysis water on all platforms. Fact is water/ocean/river exists in other engines as default for years now.
    :/ I really doubt that developers want to release or start to work on initially limited water system. Like UMG only for PC and etc. If you have "multiplatform, mobile included all-genre oriented engine " you want to have universal system, no one will make a limited option for high-demanded tool.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeOrb View Post
    :/ I really doubt that developers want to release or start to work on initially limited water system. Like UMG only for PC and etc. If you have "multiplatform, mobile included all-genre oriented engine " you want to have universal system, no one will make a limited option for high-demanded tool.
    Truth is mobile will never catch up to high-end computers.

    There are already a lot of features in UE4 that you can't use on mobiles so your logic is wrong.

  22. #62
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    Luminary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Errvald View Post
    Truth is mobile will never catch up to high-end computers.

    There are already a lot of features in UE4 that you can't use on mobiles so your logic is wrong.
    You right about "Some things will never work on mobile", but it's all about consistency of tools.
    For example many rendering options are turned off while you creating a material, but there is a lot of tips and alternate versions of nodes for mobile. Same with post-processing and other features

    For water you can't create single version of water that work only on PC fps and tps, you HAVE to think about mobile adapted version and versions that will work for other game types.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeOrb View Post
    For water you can't create single version of water that work only on PC fps and tps, you HAVE to think about mobile adapted version and versions that will work for other game types.
    I'm sure a lot of devs are not interested in Mobiles, for a mobile game you will simply NOT use dynamic water.

    The truth is (like ufna mentioned earlier) the engine lacks in some departments.

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Errvald View Post
    I'm sure a lot of devs are not interested in Mobiles, for a mobile game you will simply NOT use dynamic water.
    That doesn't really follow the Unreal Engine Workflow. UE is a cross-platform tool, as soon as you start making tools that only work on certain platforms, it no longer fits in with the rest of the toolset. There are very few things in Engine that don't work on other platforms, but they're widely known. Integrating certain features of water simulation separately using various methods and plug-ins gives you infinite scalability, and for something as complex as water that's very important. If Epic starts implementing features that are platform specific like this, you'll end up in a crazy situation where people are filing bug reports for real-time caustics generation not working on iPhone for example, which completely breaks the look of their game.

    What worries me is that people don't seem to understand how much work such a tool would involve, and how much it would take away from development time on other far more important (IMO) features. Especially considering it's all possible already if you're prepared to get your hands dirty... but that's how game development works guys.

    As I said, you're not going to have one tool with the ability to do everything that people want to do with it. It's worth doing some background reading on this subject and understanding why you have to break down water into very specific features that you want.

    EDIT:
    I forgot to add, the title of this thread is 'Infinite', which in a nutshell means whatever system you do come up with would have to be *entirely* procedural. Good luck with that!
    Last edited by TheJamsh; 08-15-2014 at 09:01 AM.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeOrb View Post
    • Is it possible to implement good water model before implementation of parallel rendering?
    I don't know about the rest but in the 4.4 patch logs there is this:
    "New: Major progress toward parallelized renderer (can be previewed with “r.RHICmdBypass 0” console command.)", I guess stuff is happening.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJamsh View Post
    That doesn't really follow the Unreal Engine Workflow. UE is a cross-platform tool, as soon as you start making tools that only work on certain platforms, it no longer fits in with the rest of the toolset. There are very few things in Engine that don't work on other platforms, but they're widely known. Integrating certain features of water simulation separately using various methods and plug-ins gives you infinite scalability, and for something as complex as water that's very important. If Epic starts implementing features that are platform specific like this, you'll end up in a crazy situation where people are filing bug reports for real-time caustics generation not working on iPhone for example, which completely breaks the look of their game.
    We are going in circles here. If EPIC wants balance between high-end pcs and Mobile might as well ditch the first.
    Plus devs know what can be used in which platform, it's not primary school for them.

  27. #67
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    Well I envy you guys that can figure out how to make an ocean with waves and would love to hang out with you for a day and watch you guys work.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Errvald View Post
    We are going in circles here. If EPIC wants balance between high-end pcs and Mobile might as well ditch the first.
    Plus devs know what can be used in which platform, it's not primary school for them.
    Yeah I suppose so, I'm just being a bit pedantic. Some of the things I've seen on answerhub requires it sometimes I do think the scalability of the tool would be an issue though.

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainDew View Post
    Well I envy you guys that can figure out how to make an ocean with waves and would love to hang out with you for a day and watch you guys work.
    I guess I just like to learn on my own and see the behind-the-scenes stuff of what goes on. I'm a fundamental believer that you learn more by throwing yourself in at the deep end and spending many nights doing tweaked Google searches to find the information you want, learning from it as you go. That's probably why I'm a bit jumpy on this idea :P All the info you need is out there somewhere!

  29. #69
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    Mythic

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJamsh View Post
    All the info you need is out there somewhere!
    And here is some of that info!

    For anyone wanting to dig deeper and learn how features like this are actually created, I have been following a tutorial created by Handkor, it is an excellent example of just how complex this issue is. Have a look through the video, and the documentation from nVidia about this issue, it is an excellent way to learn more about fluid simulation, wave simulation, and more. Highly recommended for those interested in how it works!

    nVidia Doc's: The math behind it all - http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems/gpugems_ch01.html

    Handkors tutorial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBWLfpm0K0o

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJamsh View Post

    EDIT:
    I forgot to add, the title of this thread is 'Infinite', which in a nutshell means whatever system you do come up with would have to be *entirely* procedural. Good luck with that!
    No by "Infinite" I meant Infinite. As in you can travel in any direction forever and never reach the end of the plane.

    I'm glad to here that they are working on something. But let me say this I'm not looking for a it does everything solution. just a couple features. I don't even really require the water to react to something going into it other than ad some basic foam shader. What I'm looking for is just pretty much a copy of the cry engine ocean system. I don't want to simulate waves or anything crazy. as a matter of fact the Cryengine ocean doesn't do any interaction except whatI'm talking about you can tag something as a boat or what ever and it will make a basic wake and bullets make a basic splash but that is about it. It is a basic infinite plane with a optimized tesendorf wave applied and then a animated normal map. everything else is shader stuff.

    Also let take the attitudes out of this. Epic says that they are working on it and that is fine for me. I think discussion is fine. But if this turns into a bunch of bickering I'm just gonna ask them to lock the thread.

  31. #71
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    Yeah, ignoring the issues of how to make it actually look like an ocean, making an infinite plane isn't that hard - as I mentioned before there's an example of how to do it I set up that's in Torque3D.

    In a nutshell, it just makes the grid follow the player/camera, and also stretches the far edge of the mesh out to the horizon.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by n00854180t View Post
    Yeah, ignoring the issues of how to make it actually look like an ocean, making an infinite plane isn't that hard - as I mentioned before there's an example of how to do it I set up that's in Torque3D.

    In a nutshell, it just makes the grid follow the player/camera, and also stretches the far edge of the mesh out to the horizon.
    I dont want to get into a hole argument with you here, i know there are options.
    But i think the general concent here is that this should be available with out having to resort to 3rd party plugins or a huge bag of tricks to get going.

    I did have a look at that Torque3D engine you mentioned but i was unsuccessfull in finding the example you mentioned.
    Do you have the link lying around, be intresting to know how you get stuff imported into UE 4.
    Cheers!

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCode View Post
    I dont want to get into a hole argument with you here, i know there are options.
    But i think the general concent here is that this should be available with out having to resort to 3rd party plugins or a huge bag of tricks to get going.

    I did have a look at that Torque3D engine you mentioned but i was unsuccessfull in finding the example you mentioned.
    Do you have the link lying around, be intresting to know how you get stuff imported into UE 4.
    Cheers!
    It's not something you'd be able to import - it'd be a rewrite. The point I was making is that you could swipe the way the geometry is set up and port that over to UE4. At that point it wouldn't be a third party thing (T3D is MIT licensed, so there's no issue porting the code, license wise).

    But that wouldn't be a full solution, just a start on the part of the code that differentiates a regular bounded ocean plane from an infinite one (being attached to the camera, and smoothly stretching to the horizon).

    Here's a link to the header and source file for Torque3D's WaterPlane object.

    In particular, the stuff I'm talking about is all documented in the function

    Code:
    void WaterPlane::setupVBIB( SceneRenderState *state )
    It explains in detail in the comments of that function what's needed to set up a vert buffer with a grid and a skirt of verts that go out to the horizon. You'd want to implement the same setup into a CustomMeshRender component or something like that.

    That (skirt that goes out to horizon on the ocean grid) and making the grid itself follow the camera (except for height) are the main components you need for this, after which it's a matter of implementing a material and/or a way to tesselate and deform the mesh for wave purposes.

    The comments start explaining the skirt and such here

    Code:
       // WaterPlane renders relative to the camera rotation around z and xy position.
       //
       // That is, it rotates around the z-up axis with the camera such that the
       // camera is always facing towards the front border unless looking straight
       // down or up.
       //
       // Also note that the horizon verts are pulled straight up from the front
       // border verts.
       //
       // Therefore...
       //
       // The front border must be as close to the farclip plane as possible 
       // so distant objects clip through the horizon and  farplane at the same time.
       // 
       // The left and right borders must be pulled outward a distance such
       // that water extends horizontally across the entire viewable area while
       // looking straight forward +y or straight down -z.
       //
    I wasn't ever saying it's some sort of drop in solution. I was just pointing out that for someone working on this, it might be easier to grab or look at the code for making a regular bounded grid "infinite" from T3D's implementation, then adapt that into, say, VaOcean, rather than doing everything from scratch.

  34. #74
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    I wanted to chime in here and say that I don't think that we need a built in "water tool", what we need is for translucency to be in a usable state. If we had reflections, specularity, and depth sorting for lit translucency, then proper oceans would be feasible. This is all that's missing IMO. Honestly, it isn't that much work to create the materials that you need for various liquids.

  35. #75
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    After weeks have gone by and no solution to water (we cant figure out anything that looks good) I went last night to the dark side and bought one month of the cry engine to see what all this hype is about the water, oceans, rivers, and waterfalls in cry. Well Im really impressed and dont understand why UE4 doesnt have something comparable for folks like my group who are not a smart as you guys that can produce oceans , rivers in UE4. My first night in CryEngine I imported my same DEM that I used in UE4 with in minutes I had an ocean and a river with pretty good looking results. I also have a boat that floats, water that is dynamic to bullets, tank rounds etc. all in one night. Unreal has always been my first love and still is but after spending weeks to make a ocean with no luck and then in one night with cry I have pretty good results Im scratching my head and wishing for UE4 to pull through even more with similar or better results. Heres a short video of my results tonight in cry and before tonight I had zero experience with the cry engine and I know I have really bad tiling terrain textures and other problems but it was all about water
    Last edited by MountainDew; 08-25-2014 at 07:18 AM.

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainDew View Post
    After weeks have gone by and no solution to water (we cant figure out anything that looks good) I went last night to the dark side and bought one month of the cry engine to see what all this hype is about the water, oceans, rivers, and waterfalls in cry. Well Im really impressed and dont understand why UE4 doesnt have something comparable for folks like my group who are not a smart as you guys that can produce oceans , rivers in UE4. My first night in CryEngine I imported my same DEM that I used in UE4 with in minutes I had an ocean and a river with pretty good looking results. I also have a boat that floats, water that is dynamic to bullets, tank rounds etc. all in one night. Unreal has always been my first love and still is but after spending weeks to make a ocean with no luck and then in one night with cry I have pretty good results Im scratching my head and wishing for UE4 to pull through even more with similar or better results. Heres a short video of my results tonight in cry and before tonight I had zero experience with the cry engine and I know I have really bad tiling terrain textures and other problems but it was all about water

    True, Cryengine rules water/foliage.

  37. #77
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    I would say it would be nice, other engines such as Cryengine, Unigine, to name 2 come with decent surface and underwater ocean systems. I hear some people say Unreal should focus on more important things, but i think water is almost as important as something like the terrain system.

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuchToLearn View Post
    I wanted to chime in here and say that I don't think that we need a built in "water tool", what we need is for translucency to be in a usable state. If we had reflections, specularity, and depth sorting for lit translucency, then proper oceans would be feasible. This is all that's missing IMO. Honestly, it isn't that much work to create the materials that you need for various liquids.
    Exactly. I'm not even sure what TheJamsh is trying to say; that it's not feasible to create an out-of-the-box watersystem that magically works for everyone? Agreed! But that's not the point here, is it? Besides, it's not a valid point to say that it's not going to work on mobile; there are a lot of features in UE4 which is disabled on mobile or not feasible there but they still exist for desktops or consoles.

    I think it's unfortunate that the discussion is full of people trying to prove otherwise and defend just to defend something, when it's even been commented by Epic that some aspects of the deferred renderer makes it hard to make proper water. The cave demo is a good example of this and the workaround they used there. But it's in other deferred rendered games, so it's definatly not impossible.
    Last edited by Stefan Lundmark; 09-18-2014 at 02:56 PM.

  39. #79
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    It's kind of a silly argument to compare X engine to UE4, as it does a poor job of conveying anything meaningful. It's an apples to oranges argument on many different levels; the most important is that they are two completely different things, and while they work to the same end, they are intrinsically different beasts, built from the ground up to be completely and totally different.

    I think that at some point there will be a baseline plugin or water solution, and that it will look and run great; there's nothing to suggest this won't be the case. UE4 is still very early on in its development, and still geared toward early adopters. Water doesn't necessarily make an engine great, or make a game great; the improvements they've been focusing on DO make or break an engine. Epic has made its stance clear that it doesn't develop its tools for any project or game in specific, for the same reason a cover system or stealth mechanic isn't shipped with UE4 by default. If your game subsists entirely on an UE4's ability to create massive, realistic water -- it's just not there yet, and as is the case for many developers, you have two options; do it yourself, or wait for the tool/plugin/content to be made for you.

    I think that more than likely, Epic is waiting on Forward rendering so they can utilize translucent reflective normals. The water tool we (heck, I want one too!) want will likely take time. If its not given enough time or effort, we'd be getting something subpar; I don't want that, I don't think anyone else does, either. The fact this is on their Trello is good enough for me - just my .2.

  40. #80
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    5 months later still no water comparable to cryengines
    I know they are working on implementing waveworks but it will only support nvidia gpu's for a long time and still lacking the beautiful material that makes ce's look good

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