Making a game

so i will start by saying i HAVE searched the internet for an answer to this question, but the answers are a little bit vague and require some cleaning up, but maybe thats because i had a hard time understanding it.

anyways i would like to know how much it would cost to make a game?

i will make a few general points

Genre:FPS
Speed: Doom Fast
Story: Like Doom, there is a story, but only those really into the game will catch it.
Engine: Unreal Engine 4
Graphics: Think True Photorealism(which i know Unreal Engine 4 can do now)
Models: Finely detailed
Animations: Finely detailed

My Experience

Programming: None, but i would love to learn, once i learn maths so i can get my head around jargon like algorithms, and whatnot

Music:I can sing, but i cannot make music BUT as of next month(im saving for a Lynda.com subscription)every Sunday ill be watching as many music related courses on Lynda.com

Sound: None

Graphics: none

3D Modeling: i have modeled a PC desk in Sketchip, does that count as experience???

3D Animation: a small 10 second Mine-Imator(Minecraft Animation Program)animation is the only animation experience i have.

Level Design: Depends, most levels i have made i trashed because my OCD litterally hates anit symetry and is passionate about symetry, so yes i have experience IN level design, but none has been seen by anyone other than myself.

GUI: None

thats another question i have, given my experience, what am i able to do in creating a game.

Bare min … 50k.
Average programmer: about 20 an hour
Assets (models): few hundred
Assets (plants/folaige): few hundred
Assets (misc.): few hundred
Landscape: depends, you need a lot on there (landscape, plants, start points, etc etc)
What you bring to the table: an idea and the funding.

Thats a realistic answer. At least $50,000. Thats because you bring nothing to the table but an idea. Sure you can learn, but, learning on a production idea is a bad time to learn UE4. I would even venture to say more then 50k, but, that would be a few levels. Nothing i.d.Software production like Doom. Plus you want “finely detailed”, so, thats going to need someone to make you custom models. All your “photorealism” will get you is a headache in the longrun with having a small % of the player base able to even play. Most users (as per steam) are running a 700 series video card. Not saying its bad, but, you need to see that your base will be running slightly dated hardware. Not to say this cant be done, but, your looking at a high initial spend with a small market.

ideas are cheap, execution is everything

this is a really common problem i feel. you have people that can imagine an entire game, let’s call it dreaming.
but dreams and the reality, the result of what will actually be put together is totally different most of the time.
if you are gifted and can turn your “dreams”/ideas into something real, you most likely have huge talent and years of experience.

i am saying this to lower your enthusiasm for your own ideas. you have to work work work work work work work first.

i see, at least now i have an idea of the cost i could be looking at to make a game, welp after i have learned music, i better start learning programming, and since UE4 uses C++, that will be my first programming language to learn(then java then C#, after that i may just invest some of my time into learning older less used programming languages(like b, c, fortran, etc)just to keep my programming language up to scratch(who knows maybe learning the older programming languages could be beneficial later on)

hence learning how to program would be a much better first step after i learn music.

@AP_Studios, I think under estimate a lot the cost of such things.
IDGam3r want something with true photorealism, a story, every model finely detailed… So, I look at the budget of some such games :

  • Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 : 50 Millions $ (for the dev only, add to this 200 millions for marketing !)

  • Destiny : almost 140 Millions $

  • Crysis 3 : 22 or 66 Millions $ (2 sources, I don’t witch is right)

  • Doom 1 (1993) cost 200 000 $ to dev !

You can object that they are AAA games made by big studios but you seams to have this kind of objectives…
It’s not because you work with Indies developers that you’ll have less work to do.
Achieving true photorealism in an FPS will cost you a lot !
The only solution to get what you want with no budget is to do it by yourself but make no mistake, if you work on a game for 3 to 5 years, every days, you still have a rent to pay and a stomach to fill.
If you want to pay competent persons to do it for you, they will have a rent to pay too…

I agree - but…
hes not going to employ 100 programmers, 5 lawyers, 10 HR people, 30 3D designers, etc etc.
He certainly wont spend million for marketing.
He doesnt have a giant office building to pay rent on, or, any of the things go with it (electric, water, security…)

Yes, that was a low-ball number, the 50k. It will get him where he needs to go tho. I think he may end-up around the 200k mark for “as described”. 50k was a solid ball-park number i think.

You’re right.
But still, if he doesn’t have to pay the rent for his big office, each of his indies dev will have to pay their own rent.
What I want to say is that even if you’re a passionate indie dev who feed himself with passion and glory, making a game is a long process and is very time consuming.
There are the two choices :

  • do it with 2 or 3 people and the game will take 50 years to be finished.
  • do it with 20 or 30 persons and the game will be release in 5 years.

50 k get you one person for 2 years, maybe 3 if he accept to live in your basement :).

edit :
Of course, I understand that this discussion is rhetorical ^^.
The best answer to the IDGam3r’s question is what he already says : “start to learn and see what happens”.

I think we are all able to make such sacrifice because we are working on our own project and are supported by our faith in it.
Our indies project are part of ourself and that make them doable.
Working on a project that is not personal is another story, no ?

Edit 2 :
I think we shouldn’t underestimate the necessity and the cost of marketing…
Making a game is great but we need to sell it to be able to make a second game.

$250 million odd for a Call Of Duty game, jeez louise thats alot of money for a AAA title.

As it stands atm, me saving $50 grand may take me 25 odd years, and im 24 now

i agree 100% with @AP_Studios, and being honest EVEN IF i made enough sucessfull games that i was making millions, i still wouldnt do that, personally i prefer to keep to the ways of old ID Software, keep the team small but with those passionate about the project, no point keeping someone who isnt eagerly awaiting to work on another idea from the same small group who made the last one.(i feel that statement is a lil wrong for whatever reason)

Being honest, this is great, i love the discussion going on, its helps me to get a pretty clear idea of how much my “ideas” will cost

(i got so many, a Commander Keen reimagining, a game that is: Call Of Duty+The Sims+Minecraft+Fallout 4, 4 rpg games about the 4 horsemen, games about Hercules, Achilles, Agganemnon, Ajax, Odesseus, and all other grek mythical heroes, need i note my other ideas :))

Thank you all so much

Lol, the problem is that we all have this in mind at start !
The next stage is to find what’s the project you’ll be able to achieve in the reality :slight_smile:
How many time you can give to this project ?
what’s you and your team are capable to do in this time ?

@JoGoiA – you have a lot of very very solid points, and, i will not disagree with them at all.
I think on the “low-end” would be acceptable for my answer, and, on the “high-side” would be your answer. Anything else in the middle would apply as well.

LOL @ i.d Software, they are down the street from my company.

That’s exactly the perspective I want to give by joining this discussion :slight_smile:
Alas, I can’t found how many the new DOOM had cost…

Another reference—the first Gears of War had a dev team of about 20 and cost $12 million

And that’s very small compared to how things are these days.

I’m , ID Software is IMHO the best game company ever(been a fan since they released Commander Keen) i can name most of the og personell,

I wonder where all the money is going, aside from marketing. Is there any detailed costs expanses for a AAA game available on the net?

Bonus:
make-game-button-men-s-t-shirt.jpg

A AAA first-person shooter title is honestly completely out of bounds for a small team of 5, let alone one person. Take a look at how other indie development teams have succeeded, what their games look like and include, and what they do not include. Photo-realism gets very expensive do to the amount of time it takes to model and animate, as well as the need for full-time specialists. Programming is also expensive and time-consuming. UI is also something that a game requires but you wouldn’t normally think about. Logos, title screens, the ability to save your game, sound design, music, animation state machine, setting up the ability for having a settings menu just to change the video settings and save it. Think of all the different elements a game needs to have and its quite easy to see how the costs add up.

Unless you have ridiculously good friendships with talented people who have large amounts of savings, it’s easy to see how game development costs have skyrocketed. Think about each team member you’ll need, if each person requires a relatively medium-low income of $50,000 and the game takes 1 year (which itself is a vast underestimation, more like 2-4+), and you have one environment artist, one programmer, one character modeler, one animator, one level designer, that’s already 250,000 for just one year without including health insurance/dental/vacation/computers/software/a server for backing up data/etc. and thats with omitting sound design, a UI specialist, a website content manager/web developer/community manager/etc. so people even know your game exists. Then not to mention, this is without including additional government taxes, license fees, possibly a lawyer, etc.

Ideas are super-easy to come up with, and while it’s a good practice to keep notes of all your crazy ideas as you never know which one might turn into something down the road, you also have to think realistically when starting a project. Just because UE4 can achieve photorealism doesn’t mean one person can make a photo-realistic game compared to a team of 50-200.

I’d honestly just try to recreate a game of pong in UE4 or something similar in nature if I were you, so at least you have the experience in what would seem like a very simple thing to implement takes time to develop and polish. Look at what small teams are making, stardew valley is a great example of a project by one person that still took years for him to develop. Minecraft came out at the perfect time/had a great idea, but wasn’t even developed by one person through it’s cycle and relied on money from early-access sales before early-access really was even a thing. Rimworld is also another good example of a small one-man game project (but he had alot of experience as a game developer working at large studios before he even started it), and even that has gone on to hire additional members.

Games are expensive, because time is expensive and people require income gained from time spent working in order to live. Most indie games know they can’t make AAA graphics on a large scale realistically, so they either stylize the hell out of their art direction, use procedural generation in their design, or have relatively small arena-sized games where they don’t need 100,000 art assets. In that notion, if you made your game take place on Mars you’d need like 2-4 materials for the red sand, a few rock models, a character, and that’s about it. If your game takes place in freaking new york city, that’s about 100x the amount of work.

Take the most simplest game idea you can come up with, then slash it down to the bare bones. Out of all the different fields, if you currently are just a designer without practical skills, the most useful skill for you to get would be programming. You don’t need AAA graphics to make an interesting game or game prototype. Rimworld used circles and boxes for their prototypes, Valve Software used whiteboxing for their levels until the end. If you make a fun and successful prototype, you can always polish it after to have better graphics, just don’t expect grand theft auto, fallout, or call of duty with a team of 5.

Anywho keep in mind your grand game ideas don’t have to be the first game you ever made and released. A lot of companies got started making “simple”/casual games, ports of games, and even bad games before they were able to make their first successful medium-large game.

I also feel like you might be kind of young, if so maybe you should look into working on a mod team or mods, make some levels for a game, etc. which can be a fun and educational experience that directly feeds into game development. If you did want to work on a large AAA game, then I’d recommend finding a career path that would match it. Programming is a great skill to learn for game designers, and most importantly still, it’s a skill that will allow you to have well paying jobs outside of the game industry to fall back on/live with job security.

Anywho that’s my two cents, take with it what you will!

A AAA first-person shooter title is honestly completely out of bounds for a small team of 5, let alone one person. Take a look at how other indie development teams have succeeded, what their games look like and include, and what they do not include. Photo-realism gets very expensive do to the amount of time it takes to model and animate, as well as the need for full-time specialists. Programming is also expensive and time-consuming. UI is also something that a game requires but you wouldn’t normally think about. Logos, title screens, the ability to save your game, sound design, music, animation state machine, setting up the ability for having a settings menu just to change the video settings and save it. Think of all the different elements a game needs to have and its quite easy to see how the costs add up.

Unless you have ridiculously good friendships with talented people who have large amounts of savings, it’s easy to see how game development costs have skyrocketed. Think about each team member you’ll need, if each person requires a relatively medium-low income of $50,000 and the game takes 1 year (which itself is a vast underestimation, more like 2-4+), and you have one environment artist, one programmer, one character modeler, one animator, one level designer, that’s already 250,000 for just one year without including health insurance/dental/vacation/computers/software/a server for backing up data/etc. and thats with omitting sound design, a UI specialist, a website content manager/web developer/community manager/etc. so people even know your game exists. Then not to mention, this is without including additional government taxes, license fees, possibly a lawyer, etc.

Ideas are super-easy to come up with, and while it’s a good practice to keep notes of all your crazy ideas as you never know which one might turn into something down the road, you also have to think realistically when starting a project. Just because UE4 can achieve photorealism doesn’t mean one person can make a photo-realistic game compared to a team of 50-200.

I’d honestly just try to recreate a game of pong in UE4 or something similar in nature if I were you, so at least you have the experience in what would seem like a very simple thing to implement takes time to develop and polish. Look at what small teams are making, stardew valley is a great example of a project by one person that still took years for him to develop. Minecraft came out at the perfect time/had a great idea, but wasn’t even developed by one person through it’s cycle and relied on money from early-access sales before early-access really was even a thing. Rimworld is also another good example of a small one-man game project (but he had alot of experience as a game developer working at large studios before he even started it), and even that has gone on to hire additional members.

Games are expensive, because time is expensive and people require income gained from time spent working in order to live. Most indie games know they can’t make AAA graphics on a large scale realistically, so they either stylize the hell out of their art direction, use procedural generation in their design, or have relatively small arena-sized games where they don’t need 100,000 art assets. In that notion, if you made your game take place on Mars you’d need like 2-4 materials for the red sand, a few rock models, a character, and that’s about it. If your game takes place in freaking new york city, that’s about 100x the amount of work.

Take the most simplest game idea you can come up with, then slash it down to the bare bones. Out of all the different fields, if you currently are just a designer without practical skills, the most useful skill for you to get would be programming. You don’t need AAA graphics to make an interesting game or game prototype. Rimworld used circles and boxes for their prototypes, Valve Software used whiteboxing for their levels until the end. If you make a fun and successful prototype, you can always polish it after to have better graphics, just don’t expect grand theft auto, fallout, or call of duty with a team of 5.

Anywho keep in mind your grand game ideas don’t have to be the first game you ever made and released. A lot of companies got started making “simple”/casual games, ports of games, and even bad games before they were able to make their first successful medium-large game.

I also feel like you might be kind of young, if so maybe you should look into working on a mod team or mods, make some levels for a game, etc. which can be a fun and educational experience that directly feeds into game development. If you did want to work on a large AAA game, then I’d recommend finding a career path that would match it. Programming is a great skill to learn for game designers, and most importantly still, it’s a skill that will allow you to have well paying jobs outside of the game industry to fall back on/live with job security.

Anywho that’s my two cents, take with it what you will!
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On top of my game ides i have mod ideas, mostly for Minecraft(this is where i clash, do i learn Java first or do i learn C++ first)

i do have ideas for mods for the Codemasters F1 games(mostly involves tryna bring old carsand tracks into the newer games so players can play with F1 history, but that endevour all on it own is a task, researching all the old cars, finding fottage of what the cars sounded like, etc, boiled down a mod like that would be too much)

I would do Doom(1993) mods but honestly i like Doom as it is, the only Doom modding i would do is level design which when i try to create a anti-symetric level, my ocd is the first thing that pops into me head(ALERT: THE LEVEL IS NOT SYMETRICAL, PLEASE FIX THE MAP, have that repeating in ya head litterally every five seconds, thats how bad my ocd hates anti symetry)

so starting with mods i agree would be a great starting point, but no matter what it is, mod or game, my ideas are BIG, the only small mod i would make is a mod for Minecraft that removes that completely bad Cooldown Delay(i hate that feature, what was Monang thinking)