My Engine Struggle

I should start off by saying that I don’t really have a question here, or even a distinct point. I just want to take a moment to vent my frustrations. If you have feedback I welcome it, but I understand if no one has a response.

I have this project buzzing around in my head. I want to get it made; I want something tangible that can actually run on a computer and be shared with friends.
This particular project is to create a late-90’s-style shooter. I want it to be low-poly, low-resolution textures without any smoothing, in a world built of simple shapes where the geometry is easy to read.
I also have plans for the game’s design and setting and gameplay and level flow and all of that, but they aren’t central to this discussion. What’s important here is the aesthetic of old-school late 90’s shooter.

While I have created a small number of assets, I have done very little for this project because I keep getting held down by one foundational aspect: the engine.

I debated about this a lot and did a lot of experimenting, but here are the cliff notes of what has been considered.

Building it in Unreal Engine 4 is out because I cannot get the lighting dumbed-down enough to look right. I did a bunch of experiments with the many options; it is simply too advanced to pull of the aesthetic I am going for. Plus the BSP texture tools don’t work, and that’s critical to a project like this.

I originally considered using a source port of Doom. Most of them are quite capable, easy to use, and can produce some reasonably good 3D environments. But there are certain limitations to world geometry.

I am very fond of using an old Unreal engine, making it as a mod of Unreal Tournament or UT2004. But I won’t be able to sell my final product because those aren’t open-source engines and Epic won’t license them.

This leads me to building my game as a total conversion of Quake 2.
This seems in most ways like my best option. It already has a complete single player experience that I don’t have to program, including enemy behavior, ability to go back and forth between levels, and custom keys. Nearly every last detail I want for my campaign could just be re-skinned Quake 2.
It also has multiplayer options available, and even though it is not as robust as the multiplayer form UT, it serves it purpose.
Heck, the game even operates with a 256 color palette. That pleases me, and I have enjoyed setting up the palette for my game to use.

It seems like a perfect fit, but I keep hitting problems that make me want to change my engine.
These all stem from the fact that I have no prior experience making any kind of mods to Quake games. I’ve done a lot with Unreal Tournament and a fair amount with Doom, but editing Quake 2 is unfamiliar territory.
To make matters worse, editing Quake 2 is not as straight-forward as other games. There is no set standard of tools to use, half of the tools out there don’t work on modern computers, and most of the tutorials are either out-dated or on sites that don’t exist.

I have yet to find a map editor that I actually enjoy using, (though I do have some that seem to be serviceable,) and every step I take I seem to face some issue I don’t know how to solve with few resources to get support.

These frequent frustrations keep leading me to question my choice of engine.

Yesterday I was thinking if I really care whether or not I can publish my efforts. If I was working in Unreal I could just start building levels right now. I could start getting my ideas out right now. And I want to start building levels.

I had contacted Epic about the possibility of making something with an old Unreal Engine. They stated that they are unwilling to license one of their old engines. I suppose I could try to push them, but it doesn’t seem like something that would prove fruitful.
Maybe if I was a proven developer, but not me as I am.
Maybe if my project was nearly finished and it looked good and professional, but even then it’s a crapshoot if they might be willing.

So I keep dragging myself back to Quake 2. I keep telling myself that this is the smartest path, and I should hunker down and power through whatever problem I’m facing. But for all the effort, and all the occasional advances I make, I still haven’t been able to really start making levels. I still haven’t made noticeable progress.

If I was building in Unreal, (UE1 or UE2,) I could start now, and I’m confident I could create almost everything I need without asking for help, and that I could get the help I need when I do need it. With Quake, getting help is iffy, and getting started has been slow going, and even once I do get going I won’t be happy with the way I can’t use subtraction brushes.
But of course, with old Unreal I can’t publish my work. Also I can’t use nearest-neighbor texture filtering. So what am I supposed to do but just spend weeks on something that could have taken me a day.

You are not restricted by the engine in anyway in regards to how you want your lighting to look. You can adapt it, and use any shading model you can come up with.

They aren’t as developed as one might want, but these tools are more than enough for 90s looking shooter.

Isn’t a big deal limiting final image to 256 colors in UE4 either.

Not sure, what you meant here.

Cmon, it is as simple as that:

6963-texturefilter.png

Have you looked at Aleph One It is the engine Bugnie used for their Marthon series and has been modified to run on modern PCs, including the tools used to build levels. There are a number of full conversions that show what can be done.

Your mistake is using lights.

Games like Quake 2 don’t really have them, lighting information is drawn into the textures. Simulate this by plugging everything into emissive.

No, Quake 2 actually does have lights, and stores lighting information as lightmaps. You’re probably thinking of Doom an Duke 3D

I will openly challenge that claim. Prove it. I was going through the options, asking for help on these forums, and comparing the results to identical scenes rendered in UE1 and UE2. I could not produce anything that satisfactorily reproduced that lighting, and that was just for static environments. Trying to get actors in the scene to use a rudimentary and outdated vertex lighting proved even less fruitful.
The best I could do would be to rewrite the C++ code for the lighting, and if I knew how to do that I would have done so, or re-written the Quake tools to work the way I want or something.

No, no they are not. This isn’t even up for debate, and I honestly question if you have tried to align align textures with UE4 or tried to build a map in UE1.
This isn’t them being “not developed” but they are actually broken. The functions actually do not work. They exist because they’ve always existed in the editor, but they are broken and no longer function.

You are right, and I wasn’t implying that I couldn’t. It’s not hard to just conform all your textures to that constraint. But it is just a nice perk that the engine uses those constraints natively.

I was referring to the OLD unreal engines; UE1 and UE2. Sorry, I will edit that post to make that clearer.

Neat! I will look into that.
EDIT: Hmmm, it’s a sector-based engine, so I’d still have the same limitations as using a Doom source port. Possibly even more if it hasn’t been updated as heavily as most Doom ports have.
Still, that’s great to see and I’ll take a closer look at it at some point.

The use of the two words… “Prove it…” is sure fire way to keep this thread dead…

teak