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Thread: Why should I keep paying?

  1. #1

    Question Why should I keep paying?

    Hi,
    I'm thinking about trying out UE4, and paying the first month ($19).
    Why should I keep paying if I have everything on my machine?
    And why should a team of 10 developers pay $190 per month if it's the same thing?

    I could just get the code for $19 (One month), and get an update every 6 month or so... (Unless there are major bugs fixes)

    What am I losing if I unsubscribe? what am I missing here?

    Thanks
    Gil

  2. #2
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    Hi Gil,

    Subscribers get 4 main things that non-subscribers do not: 1. Access to the marketplace, 2. Access to the Epic Github, and 3. Access to updates regularly, 4. Ability to publish games for profit. While none of these are necessary to be able to develop, and should you decide to cancel a subscription after getting the engine that is certainly acceptable, these are tools that are designed to help designers gain immediate access to the most up to date information and content. At the end of development if you want to re-new the subscription to be able to publish that is allowed as well.

    Thank you and have a great day!
    Adam

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Davis View Post
    Hi Gil,

    Subscribers get 4 main things that non-subscribers do not: 1. Access to the marketplace, 2. Access to the Epic Github, and 3. Access to updates regularly, 4. Ability to publish games for profit. While none of these are necessary to be able to develop, and should you decide to cancel a subscription after getting the engine that is certainly acceptable, these are tools that are designed to help designers gain immediate access to the most up to date information and content. At the end of development if you want to re-new the subscription to be able to publish that is allowed as well.

    Thank you and have a great day!
    Adam
    Hi Adam,

    What is the Marketplace?

  4. #4
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    There you can sell and buy assets for the UE4
    Here you can find all my Unreal Engine 4 Video Tutorials: <<Klick here>>
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  5. #5
    Hi Gil,

    And why should a team of 10 developers pay $190 per month if it's the same thing?
    The EULA states that:
    “You,” “your” or “yourself”, whether or not capitalized in this Agreement, means you as an individual or the legal entity exercising rights under this Agreement through you. For legal entities, “you,” “your” and “yourself” include any entity that controls, is controlled by, or is under common control with you, where “control” means the power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction or management of the entity in question, whether by contract or otherwise, or ownership of 50% or more of the outstanding shares or beneficial ownership of the entity in question.
    So, You as an individual developer pay $19 and are bound by the licensing terms by yourself. But then, when a company having 10 developers wants to license the engine, then the company pays $19 and the company is bound by the licensing terms.

    As far as other questions go, EULA answers those as well:
    After cancellation of your Subscription by either you or Epic, you will not be entitled to access or use future Versions of the Engine Code or future Assets that Epic makes available under the License.
    So you lose the updates. You still can use the engine and make a game with it and sell it and pay 5% to Epic.

    Regards,
    Andrew

    EDIT: Don't quote me on that ;-) I'm not a lawyer.
    Last edited by Endru6; 03-19-2014 at 07:03 PM.

  6. #6
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    Hello again!

    While Endru6 is on the right track, the first statement in the EULA agreement does read as follows:

    2. User License

    The Licensed Technology is licensed to you for use by a single User. The User may store the Licensed Technology on any of the User’s computers, but the Licensed Technology cannot be shared with others (including any other employees or agents) except through a permitted Distribution as described above.


    Within this, the company is subscribed as the owner of the license but each seat or user must be paid for separately for access to the initial install of the engine. Afterwards the company could choose to cancel until such time as they wished to receive updates or publish their game. The exception to this is Academic Institutions, who do not have to oblige the Single User agreement. Any EULA questions can best be answered on the EULA FAQ located here:

    https://unrealengine.com/eula

  7. #7
    So then what about this scenario:

    I have a team of 5 people. We each buy our seat and pay the monthly fees. We sell the game under a company name and generate $100,000. What is the royalty and who pays it? Does each of the 5 people need to pay 5% on the $100,000 totaling $25,000 (5 x 5%) or does the "project" pay 5% totaling $5,000 (1 x 5%)?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ View Post
    So then what about this scenario:

    I have a team of 5 people. We each buy our seat and pay the monthly fees. We sell the game under a company name and generate $100,000. What is the royalty and who pays it? Does each of the 5 people need to pay 5% on the $100,000 totaling $25,000 (5 x 5%) or does the "project" pay 5% totaling $5,000 (1 x 5%)?
    You would pay $5,000 in this scenario. Honestly you guys are really looking for loopholes here

    As for who pays it, that's up to you to decide between your team. Though I imagine you have a development leader that pays the team members post-shipping? I guess that person would be in charge of paying the royalty fee first.
    Technical, 3D & VFX Artist, Programmer, Audio Engineer + All-Purpose UE4 Fanboy at Alacrity Falmouth!


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJamsh View Post
    You would pay $5,000 in this scenario. Honestly you guys are really looking for loopholes here
    That wasn't searching for loopholes, that was asking for clarity
    Rule#21: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJamsh View Post
    You would pay $5,000 in this scenario. Honestly you guys are really looking for loopholes here

    As for who pays it, that's up to you to decide between your team. Though I imagine you have a development leader that pays the team members post-shipping? I guess that person would be in charge of paying the royalty fee first.

    Its not a question about team setup and management... its for clarity of the EULA because it is written for individuals.

    When you sign it and agree to pay a 5% royalty you are doing so an an individual and not as a team. There is no actual team described or locked under a license. Each team member is and based on the wording each person that has the license and releases a game for revenue has to pay the 5%. So the description of releasing a game could use some clarification.

  11. #11
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    Here's a plainer explanation of the EULA language on company vs individual use:

    The licensee agreement is between Epic and either the individual who signs up or the individual's company, depending on whether you sign up on behalf of a company (filling in the company field).

    Each human being who wants ongoing access to new versions of UE4 should subscribe separately. So, in a company with 3 active developers, you'd generally sign up for 3 subscriptions.

    Each human being who subscribes to UE4 can install and use it on all of their computers at home and work.

    Anybody can cancel at any time. By canceling, you won't receive access to new versions but can continue using existing versions you had access to as a subscriber.

    When a company ships a product, the company is responsible for paying the 5% royalty on gross revenue from users.

    We'll eventually add team-management features to simplify the process for companies, but that's many months away, sorry!

  12. #12
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    I know its really offtopic, sorry for that.. but..
    I find it funny how "THE" Tim Sweeney still has junior status

    To stay a bit more on topic, Had to quote Tim's latest message on facebook a few times now, lots of people are confused by this.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Sweeney View Post
    Each human being who subscribes to UE4 can install and use it on all of their computers at home and work.
    And there are some restriction? I can install it in my two PCs and in my work PC without any problem, like UDK3?

    Can have the two PCs running UE4 at the same time and connected to internet (with the same ip)?

  14. #14
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    personally for the price i dont see the harm of subscribing for a few months i do hope they keep adding new demo scenes on a regular bases and such :-).

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Sweeney View Post
    Here's a plainer explanation of the EULA language on company vs individual use:

    The licensee agreement is between Epic and either the individual who signs up or the individual's company, depending on whether you sign up on behalf of a company (filling in the company field).

    Each human being who wants ongoing access to new versions of UE4 should subscribe separately. So, in a company with 3 active developers, you'd generally sign up for 3 subscriptions.

    Each human being who subscribes to UE4 can install and use it on all of their computers at home and work.

    Anybody can cancel at any time. By canceling, you won't receive access to new versions but can continue using existing versions you had access to as a subscriber.

    When a company ships a product, the company is responsible for paying the 5% royalty on gross revenue from users.

    We'll eventually add team-management features to simplify the process for companies, but that's many months away, sorry!
    Thanks Tim, that clears my questions up!

  16. #16
    Is there any limit on the amount of times we can subscribe/unsubscribe? For instance, if I sub and unsub right now, to get the initial build of the engine, could I do the same thing again in a few months, to get some updates? So like, every 6 months or so, I would sub and then unsub immediately afterwards. Would that be alright?

  17. #17
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    You are free to subscribe and unsubscribe as you please. There is no limitation imparted on our end.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ffejnosliw View Post
    You are free to subscribe and unsubscribe as you please. There is no limitation imparted on our end.
    Thanks for clearing that up. I'm just a student without much money, so I need to pay attention to these kind of things

  19. #19
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    If you plan to make big sales at all with this engine, then the $19 would not be a problem. I dont see how its not worth anything at all with this great engine

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Davis View Post
    At the end of development if you want to re-new the subscription to be able to publish that is allowed as well.
    I'm sorry, but this sounds different from what I understood so far.

    I thought that one can subscribe, then unsubscribe at any time and still be able to publish their game with no need to subscribe again. Did I get it wrong?

  21. #21
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    Hi Zhed,

    I checked back into it and you are correct. You do not have to re-subscribe to publish a game, however there are steps that must be taken which can be found here: https://www.unrealengine.com/release

    Thank you and have a great day!
    Adam

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Davis View Post
    You do not have to re-subscribe to publish a game
    Awesome! This is great for indies and people developing in their spare time. Thank you Epic for making it so risk-free!

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Davis View Post
    Hi Zhed,

    I checked back into it and you are correct. You do not have to re-subscribe to publish a game, however there are steps that must be taken which can be found here: https://www.unrealengine.com/release

    Thank you and have a great day!
    Adam
    Thank you for the confirmation...this is great indeed

  24. #24
    OK granted this is just my opinion but off the bat 19 bucks a month is dirt cheap for anything. Break it down that rounds out to 63 CENTS a day. Doing my real life math that is a bit more than a third that I spend on my morning-drive-to-work cup of coffee.

    Next, and a guess, this is the principle release to get into the hands what is needed and not so much about what is wanted. Think of it this way, you buy an Ipod does it come with music?

    Next, and this is the scarey part, I've know Zak for more than a few years and I have at least an idea of the scarey way his mind works. I'm sure, no positive, that he knows that there will be those that come in, subscribe, grab as much stuff that they can download, unsubscribe and in the same process demand a refund for good measure.

    Now assuming that I am right here is what I predict. Once the rush is over and things have settled down that’s when Epic will roll out the good stuff that will hot rod a perfectly good chaise as the working base.

    Here is why you stick with the horse you rode in on.

    If this happens, as predicted, each time you sub and unsubscribe it costs you another 19 bucks so in the end it will cost you twice as much each year just for the new goodies when all you really have to do is give up your morning coffee.

    P.S. HI Zak I"M BACK.

  25. #25
    Hey,

    Wait can someone clarify a few things for me:

    1) If I didnt want to subscribe is there a way to get UE4 for non-commercial use?
    2) Is there a termination fee?
    3) So basically subscribing is like licensing for UE3 with added features?

    Thanks in Advance.

  26. #26
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    1. An initial subscription of $19 is necessary to download the editor and gain access to its various features.
    2. This subscription can be canceled at anytime, with no termination fee. Without a subscription, you can still use the tools you previously download, but you will not be able to receive new updates.
    3. With a subscription, you get access to the editor and full source code, and you can also access the marketplace for additional content. So, yes.
    Stephen Ellis | Lead Engine Support Technician | Epic Games | @TheEpicStephen
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  27. #27
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    This is very good information to know. I'm pretty much a novice with game development, i've dabbled a bit in Unity Indie and dipped my fingers in the UDK, but never seriously got into either, though i am definitely considering giving UE4 a try (though i'm not a programmer, so the Source Code doesn't really matter to me), and considering what Unity are asking for the full package of their engine ($1500 up front for Pro, or $75/month, yes i know there's Indie, but that doesn't give you everything you might need), it's a no brainer, especially when $19/month works out at about £11/month, it's a bargain.

    Now my only worry is whether or not my system will actually take UE4,

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    This is very good information to know. I'm pretty much a novice with game development, i've dabbled a bit in Unity Indie and dipped my fingers in the UDK, but never seriously got into either, though i am definitely considering giving UE4 a try (though i'm not a programmer, so the Source Code doesn't really matter to me), and considering what Unity are asking for the full package of their engine ($1500 up front for Pro, or $75/month, yes i know there's Indie, but that doesn't give you everything you might need), it's a no brainer, especially when $19/month works out at about £11/month, it's a bargain.

    Now my only worry is whether or not my system will actually take UE4,
    Wrong the English get stuffed again on US prices, we pay €19 making it about £16 instead of £11. Wish I could pay in dollars instead of euros.

    P.S. I'm not European I'm English haha.

  29. #29
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    Still, it's pretty **** impressive considering what you get access to, i don't mind paying £16/month for this, i'm paying just over half that for my audible sub anyways.

    (fellow yorkshireman here :P), like i said, my only real concern now is if my system can take UE4, i've only got 6GB of ram (the fourth module slot on my board is defunct, so can't use 8GB) and my CPU is getting on in years (6 yrs is a long time for a Q-Core)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonseedgfx View Post
    Wrong the English get stuffed again on US prices, we pay €19 making it about £16 instead of £11. Wish I could pay in dollars instead of euros.

    P.S. I'm not European I'm English haha.
    Hi Demonseedgfx - Great Britain actually pays in USD instead or EUR.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    my only real concern now is if my system can take UE4, i've only got 6GB of ram (the fourth module slot on my board is defunct, so can't use 8GB) and my CPU is getting on in years (6 yrs is a long time for a Q-Core)
    No worries...I've used UE4 (early beta version) on a system with 4GB of RAM and 6 year old CPU + 9600GT and yeah it was somewhat smooth to work.

  32. #32
    This thread is funny... I think similar discussion were ongoing in Unity3D forums too. The simple rule of thumb that has evolved in a nutshell is this: If you can't afford the 19$ subscriptiona month, then Unreal Engine is most certainly not the right tool for your purpose. Also, I think Epic Games has made a brave and important step with this model and some people seem to figure out how to abuse it in the best way . But that's probably an unfortunate side-effect.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by thesaint1987 View Post
    If you can't afford the 19$ subscription a month, then Unreal Engine is most certainly not the right tool for your purpose.
    I think those who can't afford 19$ to be paid once at least, and making a bit deal out of it, haven't played games to begin with. Many of them cost alot more than 19$.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Wei View Post
    Hi Demonseedgfx - Great Britain actually pays in USD instead or EUR.
    Now that it got mentioned, is there a reason the eurozone devs have to pay the same amount in EUR (instead of being able to pay in dollars or with exchange rate counted in)? Maybe some EU regulations or fees apply, I don't know for sure, but it's a digital product, so it wouldn't make much sense. Sorry for off-topic, but it's the first thing I noticed - that it's more expensive for us eurozone people.

    PS: The new pricing is still a very good decision I think, and a great opportunity for indie/solo devs .

  35. #35

    Royalty calculation in case of a team

    Hi there,
    First post on this forum. I hope everybody is well with a load of excitement.
    Consider this case:
    A team is working for a project. Team member is 10. Out of ten people only 6 people need to access UE4. Now on behalf of this team, I payed 3 subscriptions for my team.(or call company) Now we developed out product. For this single multi-platform product, we have this revenue figure:

    1. PC= a , Mac= b, Android= c, iOS=d.
    Total revenue, N=a+b+c+d.(per interval, say 6 month after)
    Now as we have 6 people for this product, which royalty-case will be correct?

    Case1: N*(5/100) dollar per time interval(6 month?)
    Case2: N*(5/100)*6 dollar per time interval(6 months)

    --------------------------------------
    Second question: Now lets say, we decided ps4 as next target for this same product. With all of hassle, we manage to be
    sony/microsoft registered developer. Now for this case, what will be royalty?

    Thanks.

  36. #36
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    I have a doubt: when is the payment executed - at the beginning of the each month or 1 month after the subscription. For example, if the subscription is done today, the next payment is April 1 or April 23?

  37. #37
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    This has to be the most comical thread on here.
    You're quibbling about a fee, (that to all intents and purposes is the price of a Mcdonalds happy meal, once a month) which will give you access to a tool-set/kit that is second to none in terms of creating games, architectural visualisations and much more.
    The equivalent would be to be given a pick-axe and a days entry to the Kimberly mines to dig for gold in South Africa, and then being told that you keep your gold booty if you pay the mine $5 dollars for every $100 you make.

    I can't believe that this is even being questioned or debated, and is exactly the same as a similar thread on the UDK forums.

    Frankly, I think Mr Sweeney is being incredibly generous and if it were me, you'd be paying $99 a month with no opt out. If you opt out, the engine would be deleted.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Luos View Post
    I know its really offtopic, sorry for that.. but..
    I find it funny how "THE" Tim Sweeney still has junior status
    IMO he should have kept his Junior Status, it could have been a running gag for newbs and a good way for Tim to stay humble.

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