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"comfort-mode" control option like with Unity, and other suggestions for Epic.

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    "comfort-mode" control option like with Unity, and other suggestions for Epic.

    These are just a few things I've come up after since seeing various UE4 VR demos have come out over the past year, and struggling with a few things myself:

    I am aware of Mitchmmc's template, but I was hoping someone at Epic or Oculus might reading this be able to implement these things into UE4:

    1. LB and RB and the Q key and E keys for "VR comfort mode" turning similar to how Unity has it by default (without having to use Mitchmmc's template)
    I wasn't personally a huge fan of this mode at first, but it has really grown on me and I am experiencing less nausea having it as an option if I'm seated. Also, as it stands we can't really use a swivel chair with the DK2 as there is a wire attached (unlike with GearVR).. Carmack even went as far as to referring to thumbstick turning as "VR poison", so this seems relatively important as a default control scheme option. I know I could most likely look at what Mitch is doing and copy it over, but looking more for default implementation for other VR devs that aren't using his template or aren't aware of it.


    2. Implement official VR templates from Epic(or Oculus) showcasing various VR game modes (space cockpit, fps, vehicle, stationary with UI elements), movement modes, perception of scale, vection, important depth cues (like aerial perspective), frames of reference, correct postprocessvolume settings, lighting, screenpercentage settings, and UI done right would be important things to showcase going forward. Couch knights and the Realistic Rendering demo just aren't enough imo. I do realize for that list that first person games are not what Oculus are really shooting for, but people are going to do it anyway.. so I think we might as well show them the best possible approach to it if it's going to be done. I think there is no better way to do that than to have official VR template options from the start. Maybe it's Oculus that needs to make these templates since they have done all of the research? I'm not really sure on that.

    3. If making templates showcase the "right" and "wrong" way to do things, with a demo within the templates. So instead of reading only "Oculus Best Practices Guide" for reference, we could experience these things that are being talked about for ourselves.


    I just don't want what happened with the Dying Light game to happen to anyone else of couse there were many more issues with that: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/0...rst-person-vr/
    If we are going to make VR experiences from the ground up, we really need to be shown how to do it right from the get-go. I trust the best practices guide, but have no idea how to implement some of these things and feel Mitchmmc had the right idea for making that template, but that needs to be expanded on from an official souce.

    Also side note, Couch knights no longer seems to work with 4.7 for some reason. (Has compiler errors) I would love to see this fixed as it was a very useful template for learning.
    Last edited by haggler2; 02-07-2015, 04:22 PM.

    #2
    What is comfort mode? My personal opinion, is that most games will require their own solutions. Templates shouldn't be provided for this as you will have people making games to conform to the template rather than making custom solutions to conform to the game. I also totally disregard oculus' best practices guide.

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      #3
      BlackRang666 said:02-08-2015 04:54 AM

      Originally posted by BlackRang666 View Post
      What is comfort mode?
      Originally posted by BlackRang666 View Post
      I also totally disregard oculus' best practices guide.
      Interesting.

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        #4
        Oh, I guess "comfort mode" is just turning using keys... (Since when was a keybinding a mode?) Doesn't sound very comfortable to me. I always set it up so that the body turns automatically towards whatever you are looking at. I don't see why anyone would want to add anything to control turning besides the Rift itself.
        Last edited by BlackFangTech; 02-08-2015, 09:12 AM.

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          #5
          I'd love to see this from Epic as well.

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            #6
            Oh, I guess "comfort mode" is just turning using keys... (Since when was a keybinding a mode?) Doesn't sound very comfortable to me. I always set it up so that the body turns automatically towards whatever you are looking at. I don't see why anyone would want to add anything to control turning besides the Rift itself.
            No, VR comfort mode is where it snaps you in roughly 30 degree increments when you turn with a thumbstick. It was first discovered by Cloudhead games to reduce controller-turning induced nausea in the many users they tested. You can get a taste of it in the Tuscany Unity Demo by pressing LB and RB on an xbox controller (Q and E also works on a keyboard). Dreadhalls on GearVR also makes use of this mode, and is nice if you are feeling a bit too lazy to use a swivel chair. I do prefer turning my entire body in real life for the increased immmersion (and vestibular sense with helps nausea), but if I had to turn with a controller VR comfort mode is much more comfortable for me personally (maybe not as immersive) but should be an option in UE4.

            And this comes back to why I wrote the post really, a lot of people don't know these things, or choose to competely ignore the best practices guide *cough BlackRang666 , or take their own approach, spin someone upside down, etc. as opposed to at least looking into what Oculus has researched in regards to reducing simulator sickness for most of users.

            Example videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=addUnJpjjv4
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DgfiDEqfaY
            https://www.oculus.com/connect/

            Video and text guides are not really enough though imo, need real VR examples. Now I'm not saying to follow the best practices guide word for word here, but I would not completely ignore it either. It is an excellent starting frame, because the simulation sickness problem does exist. What's comfortable for you or "feels right" may not be comfortable for 90% of your users, so you may just have to take Oculus word on a lot of this. But I am saying comments like "I also totally disregard oculus' best practices guide" only really reinforce my point here. Some templates showcasing Oculus's research findings or templates from Epic would be extremely useful imo.
            Last edited by haggler2; 02-08-2015, 04:29 PM.

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              #7
              The first thing I do when I start a project is clear out the lines that remove the starting pitch and roll when adding the Rift rotation on top of the character's rotation. If I didn't want the character to be upside down, then it wouldn't be.

              Let me elaborate more. Facing forward does nothing, turning your head to the left yaws the body to the left, and right for right, like a joystick (exponential). Meanwhile, the head of the character also turns to relative to the body in a one to one fashion. This way, the body will automatically rotates to match your view (but not instantly), and your neutral position is always facing forward, no need to spin around. Certainly more natural than teleporting 30 degrees.

              Check out my discord -> https://discord.gg/kQdVwJ3

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                #8
                Originally posted by BlackRang666 View Post
                The first thing I do when I start a project is clear out the lines that remove the starting pitch and roll when adding the Rift rotation on top of the character's rotation. If I didn't want the character to be upside down, then it wouldn't be.

                Let me elaborate more. Facing forward does nothing, turning your head to the left yaws the body to the left, and right for right, like a joystick (exponential). Meanwhile, the head of the character also turns to relative to the body in a one to one fashion. This way, the body will automatically rotates to match your view (but not instantly), and your neutral position is always facing forward, no need to spin around. Certainly more natural than teleporting 30 degrees.
                When I said "upside down", I mostly meant some devs may choose to take camera control away from the user, eg. flipping someone upside down, or things like cutscenes with no headtracking as another example. Which is generally not a good idea. It's good that you know not to turn someone upside down in VR..

                But anyway, It sounds like you may be describing the opposite of "full tank mode" or a mix of that and the default settings. I'd have to see for myself to understand what you are saying. In any case, I don't think it's really related to my point. There are a bunch of different ways this can be done and I'm only saying we could really use some official templates at some point to showcase these things. Maybe it's too soon though as this is still kind of the wild west for VR. I just saw this post from Oculus today and it seems they are still experimenting with camera controls in UE4 themselves https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=19145

                Edit: One more thing, I don't think templates hinder gameplay or creative ideas in any way. I've seen a few things made with Mitchmmc's templates that look nothing like his original template.. You can heavily modify templates, they just provide a starting framework to build upon.
                Last edited by haggler2; 02-08-2015, 07:55 PM.

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