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    PBR: Implications for texture creation?

    Hi all,

    I realize this is a pretty broad question... I am trying to teach myself texturing, but the material I am relying on is 2-3 years old already, so obviously PBR was not around at the time it was written. Specifically I am currently working on Luke Aeharn's book that teaches how to create textures from scratch using photoshop. Also looking at some Gnomon training.

    I've been doing a fair amount of reading on PBR but I can't figure out if what I am learning right now is obsolete and I should drop it altogether?

    Could a kind soul point me in the right direction?

    Thank you!

    #2
    Although the process of creating roughness maps & metallic maps are different to making specular and gloss maps- it still requires the same skills and techniques. I'd say you're on the right track and it will help you. There aren't really many PBR tutorials out there.

    Diffuse should be exactly the same - as should normal maps.

    The roughness is just greyscale - defining how rough it is (white is actually more rough, meaning less shiny) - almost an inverted B&W specular.

    The metallic texture basically changes how the light hits the model. Black: not metal, white: metal.

    without PBR - normally you'd need to tweak a specular and add colour, as well as using a gloss map, to ensure the object looks metallic.

    I actually think PBR materials are easier to create.
    Last edited by Kenomica; 06-26-2014, 08:01 AM.

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      #3
      Diffuse should be exactly the same
      No this will end up in tears ...

      Main difference is as far as I am concerned is that your diffuse/albedo map shouldn't contain ambient occlusion (you should infact make a seperate gray scale AO map).

      The roughness is just greyscale - defining how rough it is (white is actually more rough, meaning less shiny) - almost an inverted B&W specular.
      Almost right but there allot more range between full rough and mirrorlike roughness so it takes quite extensive testing to get your materials right, luckily in UE4 you can adjust this on the fly to test out values.

      After a few months of playing with PBR I also prefer the workflow it seems allot more natural to me.

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        #4
        Originally posted by Ghiest View Post
        Main difference is as far as I am concerned is that your diffuse/albedo map shouldn't contain ambient occlusion
        This. There must be no shadow information in the textures. Watch this for some tips on PBR texture creation(it's not Substance specific) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP7HgIMv4Qo
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          #5
          Thank you both!

          Good news I guess

          Ghiest, when you say no more AO in the diffuse map, you mean you don't bake it in anymore I suppose...? I usually store my AO map on the alpha channel and plug it both in roughness and ambient occlusion. Something tells me I'm doing it wrong, reading your answers :/

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            #6
            Originally posted by Jacky View Post
            This. There must be no shadow information in the textures. Watch this for some tips on PBR texture creation(it's not Substance specific) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP7HgIMv4Qo
            Wow, thanks a lot, I am going to devour this

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              #7
              PBR workflow

              Originally posted by Mantikore View Post
              Hi all,

              I realize this is a pretty broad question... I am trying to teach myself texturing, but the material I am relying on is 2-3 years old already, so obviously PBR was not around at the time it was written. Specifically I am currently working on Luke Aeharn's book that teaches how to create textures from scratch using photoshop. Also looking at some Gnomon training.

              I've been doing a fair amount of reading on PBR but I can't figure out if what I am learning right now is obsolete and I should drop it altogether?

              Could a kind soul point me in the right direction?

              Thank you!
              Hi, I believe this is what you're looking for.
              I find this articles invaluable from an artist's point of view.

              https://www.fxguide.com/featured/gam...-me-rendering/
              https://www.fxguide.com/featured/gam...onments-partb/
              https://www.fxguide.com/featured/gam...onments-partc/

              The guys from Dontnod clearly know what ther're talking about, seeing that Remember me was one of the prettiest UE3 games to date on the oldest generation, and customized the engine themselves to render sort of a UE3.5

              BTW this is the normal workflow for authoring 3d assets in a traditional vfx linear gamma space pipeline, so it has a lot of uses!

              Max

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                #8
                Some General Rules

                DIFFUSE
                Diffuse (albedo) should be gamma corrected at the source. Usually photographic sources come in PS with a gamma of 2.2, this should be linearized either with a gamma operation of 0.454545454545 or using a dynamic network inside UE's mat editor. Contrast should be balanced if not a bit washy, saturation should be kept low if you're going for realism. if you use photographic sources you need to remove shadow details and specular details. If you go out and shoot use a polarizer to get rid of the specular part. Sometimes you can bake microdetails using a very thin AO map. I believe this could be done with the AO input in the mat though, so no need to bake.
                recap: GAMMA SHOULD BE LINEARIZED, LITTLE CONTRAST, LITTLE SATURATION, NO SPECULAR, NO SHADOW, NO AO

                SPECULAR
                Specular should be just intensity values. for different parts of the same material you can paint a RGB map (or a RGBCYM map or anything that you can use) and assign different values to the materials. SPEC is only intensity! you should think about this as a multiplier instead of a detailed map. The master material inside SciFiHallway does this very well.
                recap: SPEC SHOULD BE CONSTANT VALUES PER TYPE OF MATERIAL, USE AS A POW MULTIPLIER ONLY

                ROUGHNESS
                This is where you add details to your speculars. white means blurred (rough) black means sharp (glossy). The magic of spec detail is all here, use this map well. Be careful of GAMMA though, as i don't know if the roughness input compensates for gamma corrected space.
                recap: SPEC DETAIL GALORE. IF HAVING ROUGH TRANSITIONS FROM GLOSS TO ROUGH PLEASE LINEARIZE

                NORMAL
                Same stuff as before guys!

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                  #9
                  Thanks a ton, Max! This forum/community is incredibly helpful and patient, even with total noobs like me

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                    #10
                    Here are all the good links I could find on PBR (I'm interested in this myself, but not an artist, so I've been trying to figure out how I can convert textures to PBR with minimal art skills).

                    http://artisaverb.info/PBR.html

                    http://www.makinggames.de/index.php/..._based_shading

                    http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice

                    https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/ph...shading-in-ue4

                    http://www.chrisevans3d.com/pub_blog...based-shading/

                    http://interplayoflight.wordpress.co...sed-rendering/ <------ This one links to tons more material
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                      #11
                      Thank you! I have reading material for the next week or so.

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                        #12
                        No problem

                        If anyone has examples of PBR used for natural/outdoor/forest scenes, I'd love to see that as well, because typically most scenes that use it are only in industrial or residential style settings, where the vast bulk of the materials are manufactured, rather than organic, surfaces.
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                        Dungeon Survival - WIP First person dungeon crawler with a focus on survival and environmental gameplay ala roguelikes

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                          #13
                          Yeah, I was wondering the same thing actually. Since it's all abut light and reflection, how does this apply to leaves, tree bark, etc.

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                            #14
                            I poked around a bit and I noticed gametextures.com has 150+ PBR-ready mats in their natural section, I am going to dissect some of those.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Mantikore View Post
                              I poked around a bit and I noticed gametextures.com has 150+ PBR-ready mats in their natural section, I am going to dissect some of those.
                              I grabbed some for the trial and I don't seem to see anything terribly special about what they're doing in the textures. That said I haven't had a chance to really test how all of them look.

                              Also, quick question: If I'm using Lightmass, and have a material with everything set up right, do I need to do anything else for it to work PBR style?
                              Storyteller - An immersive VR audiobook player

                              Dungeon Survival - WIP First person dungeon crawler with a focus on survival and environmental gameplay ala roguelikes

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