Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

4.19 Physical Lights

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
    Did you have pre-exposure enabled in the project settings? I've had black specular artifacts too, but it was fixed once pre-exposure is applied to the scene color. It doesn't fix some of the other asset issues(planar reflections), but the actual specular from the light source gets fixed.
    Turning pre-exposure on seems to fix convolution bloom aswell but breaks CircleDOF, creating alot of noise in bright scenes. Also, the console command r.UsePreExposure doesn't seem to work.

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by iniside View Post
      Thinking about why there is no:
      1. Build in lighting rig with few paremeters/presets. Ie, just light intensity (for easier setup if you need something to work out of box).

      2. Why SkyLight does not derive it's intensity from Directional Light intensity. The two are needed and complimentary. It would be much easier to control both using single slider, than doing guess work.

      3. Why not add reasonable presets for Camera eye adaptation ?
      Man I would be so up for this!

      Although careful! The skylight brightness should NOT be related to the directional light at at! The skylight should always sample the skydomes brightness and should not have a brightness itself as thats confusing. For artistic needs there can be a multiplier to make it artificially darker or brighter, but it should not have a brightness slider in lux or whatever. So basically the way it is right now is perfect if people stop using the brightness as brightness. Just leave it at 1 and increase your sky brightness by either multipliying your HDRi up in your material OR by increasing the Directional Light intensity which makes the atmospheric fog brighter (there is your sun sky relationship!)

      You dont want to link skylight brightness do directional light brightness as again, the important relationship is how the sun affects the skydome, the skylight just samples whats there. So you want the sunlight to have an effect on the skydome! Of course thats not happening when using HDRs, which is why sunny 16 and measured values become more important and otherwise, when using the physical sky via atmospheric fog, it works exactly like that already...so thats great!

      Regarding your last post...sooooo Epic is already secretly rewriting the system? Or do you mean something else by lighting model? Super curious now^^

      ​​​​​​​Cheers!
      Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
      https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Daedalus51 View Post

        Man I would be so up for this!

        Although careful! The skylight brightness should NOT be related to the directional light at at! The skylight should always sample the skydomes brightness and should not have a brightness itself as thats confusing. For artistic needs there can be a multiplier to make it artificially darker or brighter, but it should not have a brightness slider in lux or whatever. So basically the way it is right now is perfect if people stop using the brightness as brightness. Just leave it at 1 and increase your sky brightness by either multipliying your HDRi up in your material OR by increasing the Directional Light intensity which makes the atmospheric fog brighter (there is your sun sky relationship!)

        You dont want to link skylight brightness do directional light brightness as again, the important relationship is how the sun affects the skydome, the skylight just samples whats there. So you want the sunlight to have an effect on the skydome! Of course thats not happening when using HDRs, which is why sunny 16 and measured values become more important and otherwise, when using the physical sky via atmospheric fog, it works exactly like that already...so thats great!

        Regarding your last post...sooooo Epic is already secretly rewriting the system? Or do you mean something else by lighting model? Super curious now^^

        ​​​​​​​Cheers!

        IDK I haven't looked at code, but the value you provided in one post (125000 for sun 16/EV) and scene is just white, regardless if there is SkyLight on scene or not. I guess something changed.

        Yes, that's what I meant. That brigthness of sun should controll brightness of sky, which should in the end controll brightness of ambient light over scene. Right now for me it was pure guess work to get something reasonable to work in 4.20. I ended up using Auto Exposure, directional light at 5 and Skylight 0.3-0.4,
        https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by iniside View Post


          IDK I haven't looked at code, but the value you provided in one post (125000 for sun 16/EV) and scene is just white, regardless if there is SkyLight on scene or not. I guess something changed.

          Yes, that's what I meant. That brigthness of sun should controll brightness of sky, which should in the end controll brightness of ambient light over scene. Right now for me it was pure guess work to get something reasonable to work in 4.20. I ended up using Auto Exposure, directional light at 5 and Skylight 0.3-0.4,
          What type of sky did you use? default skydome or atmospheric fog? Again....you should never need to touch the skylights intensity as the sky brightness comes from the sky. Nevertheless...these values sound completely random XD

          Can you try using an HDRi mapped to the skydome? Then just multiply it up until it becomes visible with EV 16. If you then just put the sun to something around 120k it should look kinda okay-ish. You might need to add an exposure compensation of 1.5 - 2.
          Also really make sure you lock everything in manual at 1/125, ISO 100 and EV 16. I am just suggesting things here...if it doesn't work then it doesn't I will not try 4.20 until there is a preview build^^

          /Daedalus
          Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
          https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Daedalus51 View Post

            Also really make sure you lock everything in manual at 1/125, ISO 100 and EV 16. I am just suggesting things here...if it doesn't work then it doesn't I will not try 4.20 until there is a preview build^^
            By EV do you mean exposure compensation or aperture (F-stop)? I understand EV as exposure compensation, but that doesn't make sense the way you put it. ISO 100, shutter speed 1/125 with EV of 16 can be anything if you don't mention F-stop. So I think you mean F-stop of 16 and EV of 0, but please clarify.

            Comment


              #51
              Trying to achieve nice evening-ish lighting here.



              Sun at 100 000, sky is HDRi with multiplier of 15 000.

              This is the result:



              Here with LUT that Maximum-Dev provided.

              Comment


                #52
                I just tried a view scenes of mine and all i can say so far, it's a absolut disaster... i really hope this will be fixed/replaced soon or epic will provide us a demo scene where they expalin in detail on how to work with this mess.

                If veteran users/developers like Daedalus51 or Maximum-Dev have trouble to setup a "correct" good looking lighting, epic should be really ALARMED, especially when we consider that most of the UE4 users/developers even don't come close to the knowledeg of a DICE working lighting artist.

                Good looking/realisitc lighting setup should become easier to setup not harder... So beginners or not so advanced users, have the chance to setup at least something good looking quick, without beeing a lighting pro.
                Last edited by A-J-K; 04-15-2018, 02:07 PM.

                Comment


                  #53
                  For me is not even that I want my scene to look good with the new Lightning Units/System anymore. I was in the middle of a project when I realized the lights were way off compared to the previous model and jumped back to 4.18 faster than you can say "Candela"
                  Now I just want to Understand what's going on under the hood.

                  Even if the old system was flawed and not-so-physically-based-as-it-looked, It was well documented and It was relatively easy to jump in.
                  I have no doubt this new system is better and the changes are for the better in the long run. But it needs to be documented/normalized/standardized sooner than later.
                  If those Exposure Control numbers everyone is pointing (within a range variations) are the standard photographic numbers for, say, a sunny day outdoor capture with iso 100. Souldn't those be the standar numbers when we open the Editor?

                  The problems with the Underexposed Skysphere material that some are pointing at for ej., man, those look a lot like a poor global implementation of the lighting system.
                  For me the big problem has to do with standards. Epic needs to unify the system. If we have standard autoexposure compensation values and tonemapping when we open a project (hell we even have a "standard" scene with a sky and a directional light already in there!) why we can't have the same for the camera settings, aperture etc? why can't the Directional Light and the skylight come straight out of box balanced with point lights in some form or another?
                  for the sky material aren't already a couple of standards for sky brightness colors like those CIE pelham and stuff? can we get those? and balance those with wathever the sun should be balanced? or am I talking nonsense? (maybe the brightness difference is too strong and can't be balanced, I'm not an expert in the field in any way)
                  But if it can be balanced... THEN let the user, say... double the directional light intensity and put the bulbs in 4000000000 foot candles or wathever the want, But starting from a "correct" camera exposure & light brightness (let's say... standarize everything with the default level that comes with the sky and the directional light, and let the users start from there)

                  The goal of this? that the not-so-proficient in lighting physics (like me but I Imagine there's others) can punch a couple of numbers in the editor and get... I'm not saying an acceptable Image from the get go, but at least a Predictable one like: "I'm halving this light power" "doubling it" "I pasted this lumen values from this vendor and the light values I get are acceptable" or even "I'm now making a point light that shines equal to the Sun/directional ligth" or wathever.
                  This half and half standarized thing is a mess. Seems like half the engine is trying to look good from the start (with things like bloom, lens flares, vignette enabled by default) and the other half is trying to be physically accurate, go one way or the other Epic.

                  Also... we are talking LIGHTS here... that's a central part of the engine in my opinion, unless you're working on a super stylized project or only programming in blueprints/AI a user gonna have to deal with lights at some point or another, so document everything when you do changes like this, we need reference from the source.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Yeh, I guess there are a few problems that arn't epics fault though. The exposure system and physical light values were only recently added. Two systems for simple and advanced lighting would cover all use cases but is hard to implement. And a physical based system for lighting in a real time game engine is always going to complicated because there is a limit to how simple a heavily approximated dynamic system can be with so many variables. Maybe vrays solution could work.
                    https://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/...ender+UI+Modes

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Good to see that this is being addressed by Epic and our concerns are being heard!
                      Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                      https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Daedalus51 View Post
                        Good to see that this is being addressed by Epic and our concerns are being heard!
                        When is the next lighting academy coming??

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Epic was unaware of black reflection artifacts. Just made a bug report right now. I assume the fix wouldn't be in 4.19.2.
                          Artstation
                          Join the support channel
                          Gumroad Store

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post
                            Epic was unaware of black reflection artifacts. Just made a bug report right now. I assume the fix wouldn't be in 4.19.2.
                            Thats great news! However, I would still highly appreciate ANY response in regards to the concerns voiced in this thread
                            Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                            https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by Daedalus51 View Post

                              Thats great news! However, I would still highly appreciate ANY response in regards to the concerns voiced in this thread
                              You're going to watch your children grow up and get married while waiting for response here.
                              But seriously, Epic, wouldn't you want to try and collect some feedback on new engine features you put out? because at the end of the day if we can't use them, your work is wasted. ^^
                              Artstation
                              Join the support channel
                              Gumroad Store

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post

                                You're going to watch your children grow up and get married while waiting for response here.
                                But seriously, Epic, wouldn't you want to try and collect some feedback on new engine features you put out? because at the end of the day if we can't use them, your work is wasted. ^^
                                Pretty much yeah lol Hey Kalvothe lets put you to the test and see if you can notify epic of their needed feedback on this thread

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X