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    #31
    @Daedalus51

    Tried to use your values on sample scne (new map with single floor). disabled all static lighting. As long there was nothing particularly reflective on scene it looked acceptable, the moment I placed an mesh with wood material (from StarterContent), it broke. I guess after setting 125000 on directional light, renderer run out of numbers and flipped into negative values, since where there were supposed to be reflection it was black blob.

    So it either cannot be intended setup (by Epic), or the material is broken.. I would guess the first.
    But what are correct values in this supposedly physically correct lighting model ? (when providing physically correct values break it).
    Last edited by iniside; 04-11-2018, 09:16 AM.
    https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post
      It was some quick and crazy changes to highlights, midtones and shadows in PPV and didn't touch tonemapper settings. Now it does look like a nice sunny day but still far from how it should've been. You can see text on square 16 is hard to read.
      ACES is a "Film" tonemapper and I never understood why Epic put it in a game engine instead of something like Hable tonemapper.

      It's a "filmic" tonemapper, meaning it's based on the response curve of various film stocks, which is based on the response curve of our eyes(excluding dynamic range, local chromaticity correction, etc). I believe CryEngine supports/will support ACES based on one of their blog posts last year, but I don't know which flavor/curve. Have you tried adjusting the Tonemapper settings in Unreal to reduce the blacks and match your CryEngine result? Reducing the 'toe' value will quickly give you more milky blacks.


      Originally posted by iniside View Post
      @Daedalus51

      Tried to use your values on sample scne (new map with single floor). disabled all static lighting. As long there was nothing particularly reflective on scene it looked acceptable, the moment I placed an mesh with wood material (from StarterContent), it broke. I guess after setting 125000 on directional light, renderer run out of numbers and flipped into negative values, since where there were supposed to be reflection it was black blob.

      So it either cannot be intended setup (by Epic), or the material is broken.. I would guess the first.
      But what are correct values in this supposedly physically correct lighting model ? (when providing physically correct values break it).

      Did you have pre-exposure enabled in the project settings? I've had black specular artifacts too, but it was fixed once pre-exposure is applied to the scene color. It doesn't fix some of the other asset issues(planar reflections), but the actual specular from the light source gets fixed.
      Lighting Artist II @ Crystal Dynamics
      ArtStation
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        #33
        I just set Toe to 0 and tried to bring it all back using a LUT, again based on how it looks like in cryengine.
        Here are the results of how the rite looks in cryengine and in UE4+LUT (both without bloom)

        I'm actually not sure which was which after uploaded. I think first image is cryengine.
        Both engines with 125,000 Lux, no ambient light, no bloom. UE4 camera settings is sunny 16.





        Enabling bloom with default value makes it look quite like a nice sunny day now.
        Here's the LUT if anyone wants to try it out.

        https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TI...fJ0ffYBskr4nOs

        Edit: Set Toe to 0 if you use the LUT.
        Last edited by Maximum-Dev; 04-11-2018, 05:11 PM.
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          #34
          Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
          Did you have pre-exposure enabled in the project settings? I've had black specular artifacts too, but it was fixed once pre-exposure is applied to the scene color. It doesn't fix some of the other asset issues(planar reflections), but the actual specular from the light source gets fixed.
          Thanks I will try it out. Though it shouldn't be nessesary to workound it in frist place.
          https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

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            #35
            Man, I used to follow rather blindly the 3.1416 SUN Sky 1 and 1750 lm for 100 watt bulbs guidelines from the guy who worked in robo recall.
            Now 1750 lumens looks completely blown away, relations look off etc.
            What has changed and what new guidelines should I follow for creating a basic illuminated scene now?

            Not having resources for this new changes makes it really hard to work in 4.19 for me. I think I'm going back to 4.18. Which is a pity cause 4.19 looks nice.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Juanmilanese View Post
              Man, I used to follow rather blindly the 3.1416 SUN Sky 1 and 1750 lm for 100 watt bulbs guidelines from the guy who worked in robo recall.
              Now 1750 lumens looks completely blown away, relations look off etc.
              What has changed and what new guidelines should I follow for creating a basic illuminated scene now?

              Not having resources for this new changes makes it really hard to work in 4.19 for me. I think I'm going back to 4.18. Which is a pity cause 4.19 looks nice.
              I think that's kind of what we're all trying to figure out here There are values documented for just about every time of day that the engine now uses, but those values don't give the results we'd expect.

              The reason your old light value does not look the same now is that exposure was off by -9 stops previously, according to one of the programmers. With the proper EV and material calibration, the new values should look correct compared to a photo of the same EV and materials(excluding tonemapping)
              Lighting Artist II @ Crystal Dynamics
              ArtStation
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                #37
                Messing around with it i'm finding the tonemapper pretty limiting. And the problem with the tonemapper and real world values is that everyone is going to have a different idea of what it should look like based on whatever source material they are use to. Personally I would like to have an option where you could disable the tonemapper and have a log encoding with a slider to control the amount of encoded dynamic range, then use the color grading tools for tonemapping. And to make it simple for everyone, have a preset menu with some typical tonemapping/grading settings.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Juanmilanese View Post
                  What has changed and what new guidelines should I follow for creating a basic illuminated scene now?
                  At the bare minimum pick an EV or aperature value relative to the environment you are trying to emulate then bring in a color chart and change the light values till it looks uniformly lit.

                  Attached Files

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
                    Did you have pre-exposure enabled in the project settings? I've had black specular artifacts too, but it was fixed once pre-exposure is applied to the scene color. It doesn't fix some of the other asset issues(planar reflections), but the actual specular from the light source gets fixed.
                    Ok it's somewhat fixed. But now I had to bring my SkyLight value into 0.001 range. Otherwise everything is just white ;o.
                    Last edited by iniside; 04-12-2018, 04:56 AM.
                    https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

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                      #40
                      So are the folks at Epic aware of this? Is a fix being worked on?

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Sir_Manfred View Post
                        So are the folks at Epic aware of this? Is a fix being worked on?
                        Honestly....my main concern is that it will go down exactly how it happened with the Tonemapper

                        Basically EVERYONE complains about it because there are no alternatives and Epics only reply is a) our tonemapper is great but you just dont understand it (they never said that, but you get that feeling by how they treat this topic) or b) they just tell you: well then turn our tonemapper off and do your own. Like I have a graphics programmer in my closet that is just waiting to do that for me :P

                        This really makes me sad the more I think about it so all we can really do for now is for some folks from Epic to talk to us.

                        Please Epic...this is an open invitation to, at least have a dialog with us about this! Lets just sit together like grown-ups (and not internet trolls^^) and discuss how this was implemented and how we can improve it. No bad feelings, no blaming or hating...just a normal discussion and exchange of ideas. Wouldnt that be great?

                        Cheers!
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                          #42
                          ^^ I agree.
                          the entire thing is confusing and as much as I tried using the (already confusing or contradictory) advice on this thread I ended up having a pitch-black or a completely overblown lit world, or something that was somewhat similar but with something that was always off (ie. direct light ok but completely black skylight)

                          my biggest issue following this thread was this "EV" value which doesn't exist anywhere (except the viewport preview setting in the "Lit" dropdown, which is that, just a preview)
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                            #43
                            Thinking about why there is no:
                            1. Build in lighting rig with few paremeters/presets. Ie, just light intensity (for easier setup if you need something to work out of box).

                            2. Why SkyLight does not derive it's intensity from Directional Light intensity. The two are needed and complimentary. It would be much easier to control both using single slider, than doing guess work.

                            3. Why not add reasonable presets for Camera eye adaptation ?
                            https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

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                              #44
                              Then we need to wait using the 4.18 for an update in the 4.19 or some information from Epic?
                              what do you recommend?

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                                #45
                                Btw.On Master Branch the lighting model changed. Values provided here by Daedlus do not work (lighting is bright it become white).

                                So yeah I guess it's changed..
                                https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

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