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    I have been asking multiple times about the alignment between auto exposure and the cameras, mainly make auto exposure use the same ISO, Aperture (FStop) and timing settings so we can have gameplaystuff aligned with cutscenes (also, it just would be super helpful from an understanding point of view)
    yes that’s all in4.21 already. Have you tried it?

    Auto exposure uses ev100
    a new hdr viz mode let’s you see what’s going on.
    Auto auto exposure can now affect full range (project setting)


    Let us know what you think or need help finding it
    Pierre-Felix Breton

    Sr Technical Product Designer AEC, Unreal Engine
    Epic Games - LinkedIn

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      Feel like this need a new thread we can link to from here as we go into the new 4.21 update. Super excited to see what people make on the new changes.

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        I just tested the new sun position calculator plugin and it feels very convenient. I hope it will set the physical value of the sun in the future.

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          Originally posted by IOchair View Post
          I just tested the new sun position calculator plugin and it feels very convenient. I hope it will set the physical value of the sun in the future.
          What plugin is that? It really simple to set up your own Blueprint to derive sun intensity/color based on angle, but it might need an override because most of the time you never use a sun angle ~10 degrees from the horizon because of long shadow view distances and cascaded shadow bias issues if you use the default filtering.

          I appreciate the new additions for 4.21, especially the min/max auto exposure with EVs. It'd be great to get some view modes to measure per-pixel Luminance and Illuminance based on geo only to get a horizontal Lux reading. Going in and out of the Pixel Inspector can be tedious with the amount of back and forth needed for getting values in range, even more so when you have to disable certain screen-effects every time to not measure Luminance through Bloom.
          Lighting Artist @ Rockstar Games
          ArtStation
          Twitter

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            Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post

            What plugin is that?
            Click image for larger version

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ID:	1549551 ​​​​​​​This one.

            Comment


              Originally posted by pf_breton View Post

              yes that’s all in4.21 already. Have you tried it?

              Auto exposure uses ev100
              a new hdr viz mode let’s you see what’s going on.
              Auto auto exposure can now affect full range (project setting)


              Let us know what you think or need help finding it
              Soooo...I finally got a chance to have a look...and honestly, I am a tiny little bit frustrated as its again, nothing like I had hoped

              Also, I might actually be outing myself as the biggest noob now, but I have no **** idea what EV100 is and I honestly dont care. Its not needed for this to work and we dont have that at work either and do just fine. All I was asking for was to make autoexposure and camera use exactly the same settings, which they dont!


              Click image for larger version  Name:	01.PNG Views:	1 Size:	477.0 KB ID:	1551561
              Click image for larger version  Name:	02.PNG Views:	1 Size:	255.3 KB ID:	1551562

              You can see how they clearly do not look the same. And its probably due to the fact that I dont understand what EV100 is. But on the other hand, I think I should not have to! Just make them the same and no one needs to think about weird stuff. I honestly do not understand why it is so hard to get that^^ And I think you guys would agree that using the same values and approaches across multiple things is a good thing, no?

              PLS, pls, pls make it like this and everything will be great!:

              Click image for larger version  Name:	ProperExposure.png Views:	1 Size:	41.4 KB ID:	1551563

              In my opinion, this would solve everything and no one needs to understand what the weird EV100 does as it also has no real relation to cameras. What I proposed above totally does

              Thank you so much and cheers!


              EDIT: And really sorry if I come across as rude. Its just so frustrating from my point of view and I dont get why you guys always chose the more complicated way first^^
              Last edited by Daedalus51; 11-14-2018, 08:08 AM.
              Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
              https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

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                EV is entirely related to cameras. It's a single unit based on shutter speed, ISO(generally 100), and f/stop to where any combination that has equal exposure to another combination would use the same EV. Instead of worrying about the individual settings, you can use the EV input. Plus, it provides a real-world measured reference that can get you 90% of the way there just like other physical units. For instance, interiors will likely be around 4 - 8 because of the average luminance found in interiors, but with Auto-Exposure now directly using EVs, we can also adjust for the exposure outside if you get near a window, like up to 13 for the overcast day outside in my scene. There's a minor difference even if you use the viewport EV vs. manual settings, but they're close enough that you won't notice unless you have images side by side like this...



                Last edited by rosegoldslugs; 11-14-2018, 12:32 PM.
                Lighting Artist @ Rockstar Games
                ArtStation
                Twitter

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                  Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
                  EV is entirely related to cameras. It's a single unit based on shutter speed, ISO(generally 100), and f/stop to where any combination that has equal exposure to another combination would use the same EV. Instead of worrying about the individual settings, you can use the EV input. Plus, it provides a real-world measured reference that can get you 90% of the way there just like other physical units. For instance, interiors will likely be around 4 - 8 because of the average luminance found in interiors, but with Auto-Exposure now directly using EVs, we can also adjust for the exposure outside if you get near a window, like up to 13 for the overcast day outside in my scene. There's a minor difference even if you use the viewport EV vs. manual settings, but they're close enough that you won't notice unless you have images side by side like this...



                  I know what EV is and what its meant for...I meant this EV100 thing doesnt ring a bell. Its obviously some sort of standard to base calculations on. I asked around at work and no Lighting Artist nor TA has ever heard about this at DICE.....so no one was able to enlighten me

                  If I look at your shots, they look the same, which is great! But the values are COMPLETELY different! And exactly that is my issue.

                  What do you say to my mockupshot? I think like this, there would be just no confusion as it would be aligned and straight forward to understand! The values used in autoexposure right now dont make sense as they are inconsistent to the cameras values.

                  The mockup I provided is mostly an interface change with a tiny bit of rewiring behind the scenes and I struggle to understand why no one sees this as a good thing^^

                  Cheers!
                  Last edited by Daedalus51; 11-14-2018, 01:54 PM.
                  Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                  https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

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                    EV100 is just a widely accepted constant for measured values at ISO 100. You can do the math to adjust for different ISOs, but I think it's safe to assume that most EV charts online will be based on an ISO of 100. There's probably a particular reason for film, but only thing I can think of is it's generally more suitable for a wide range of scenes with little visual issues, compared to high ISOs getting grainy. In games I don't think it matters as much since you can change the f-stop and shutter speed for any ISO and get clean results.

                    The values are technically the same, they're just presented differently. An EV of 5 is identical to a shutter speed of 1/4s with an f-stop of 2.8 at ISO 100. It's also identical to a shutter speed of 1s, ISO 100, and a f-stop of 5.6 because both combinations of settings will result in identical exposure. EV5 is just a simpler way to put it.

                    And that's where your settings messed up, you aren't using the right f-stop for an EV of 8 with the shutter speed at 1/125s. Try 1.4. You can use a chart like this Wikipedia one to narrow down the individual camera settings for 'manual mode.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposu...amera_settings
                    Lighting Artist @ Rockstar Games
                    ArtStation
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                      Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
                      EV100 is just a widely accepted constant for measured values at ISO 100. You can do the math to adjust for different ISOs, but I think it's safe to assume that most EV charts online will be based on an ISO of 100. There's probably a particular reason for film, but only thing I can think of is it's generally more suitable for a wide range of scenes with little visual issues, compared to high ISOs getting grainy. In games I don't think it matters as much since you can change the f-stop and shutter speed for any ISO and get clean results.

                      The values are technically the same, they're just presented differently. An EV of 5 is identical to a shutter speed of 1/4s with an f-stop of 2.8 at ISO 100. It's also identical to a shutter speed of 1s, ISO 100, and a f-stop of 5.6 because both combinations of settings will result in identical exposure. EV5 is just a simpler way to put it.

                      And that's where your settings messed up, you aren't using the right f-stop for an EV of 8 with the shutter speed at 1/125s. Try 1.4. You can use a chart like this Wikipedia one to narrow down the individual camera settings for 'manual mode.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposu...amera_settings
                      The problem is....I get all that My example was specifically made like this to make the point that the scales used are different. But I want the 2 features that deal with exposure to use the same scale. I refer more to sunny 16. Which is mostly defined by ISO 100 and 1/125s. This then results in an FStop of 5-8 for an interior for example or around 10-11 for a cloudy day and around 16 for a full sunny day.

                      Why is the camera exposure setting in line with sunny 16 but the one system I need to use to have a range of lets say f8 to f10 for gameplay is not? Thats my only issue with this Its for the sake of understanding it better and streamlining it for less experienced people. Also it would be easier touse the samevalues for cutscenes and gameplay (with the difference that gameplay would have a range of a few stops if you want)

                      Cheers!

                      Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                      https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

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                        So your original post is about the auto-exposure relying on EVs only? Definitely did not get that. Your images led me to believe your results were not expected because you said you didn't understand EVs

                        Is there a reason you're trying to use the manual one so much? I get the desire to have them both using identical features, but there's very little reason to use the manual mode so I'm just curious. I guess if you're actively trying to replicate someone's setup that isn't covered by the EV configurations or the new DoF is tied to the manual exposure settings(I don't even know if that is on the roadmap or not...), but otherwise I'm at a loss if the visual result is identical. Maybe I'm missing something

                        Lighting Artist @ Rockstar Games
                        ArtStation
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                          I`m also still very confused about all the places you can input different values getting totally different results. Maybe I`m missing something but the thing I can`t wrap my head around is: why does the editor under lit > ev100 value differ vastly from setting ev100 in a PPV under exposure. shouldn't min max brightness (Exposure) translate to ev100... In my scenes editor ev100 set to 6 (value for interior lighting taken from wikipedia) matches to something like min max brightness set to around 70.... (under auto exposure in PPV)

                          In order to match the viewport ev100 of 6 to the PPV min/max brightness of 6 I need to do an exposure compensation of -3.7

                          I`m pretty sure I`m doing it wrong... but I`d love to understand where I went wrong

                          (my scene lights are around 500-5000lm btw and I`m also trying to figure out if those settings are correct. It`s not helpful to see that the unitless value of 1000lm is 49735. that irritates me even more)
                          Last edited by akaChrisV; 11-15-2018, 06:44 AM.

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                            Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
                            So your original post is about the auto-exposure relying on EVs only? Definitely did not get that. Your images led me to believe your results were not expected because you said you didn't understand EVs

                            Is there a reason you're trying to use the manual one so much? I get the desire to have them both using identical features, but there's very little reason to use the manual mode so I'm just curious. I guess if you're actively trying to replicate someone's setup that isn't covered by the EV configurations or the new DoF is tied to the manual exposure settings(I don't even know if that is on the roadmap or not...), but otherwise I'm at a loss if the visual result is identical. Maybe I'm missing something
                            ****...I just accidentally deleted everything I replied before submitting it XD

                            Well...An epic misunderstanding between the two of us I would say

                            My point is this: when you build a game, you usually have in-game cutscenes. Now you have lighters working on the level and lighters working on the cinematic team. When you have a seamless transition from cutscene to gameplay, you want to make sure both cameras look the same (while the gameplay one allows for variable exposure of 2-3 stops, for example, to keep gameplay somehow dynamic) Why is there no shutter speed setting on auto exposure? what shutter speed is it using? To me, it's just a black box

                            Now if the cutscene guy sets up ISO 100 and a shutter speed of 1/100 (that's usually the default for these rules...1/100 or 1/125)....he might decide to go with f9.

                            Sky has around 5000 cd/m2 and the sun is about 65 000 lux for example. So now this looks great. Now the level lighter wants the map when you play it to look exactly like the cutscene to make transitions as seamless as possible (or the other way round, the cinematic guy wants to use level settings).

                            Now one of the 2 has to either do some math or choose some super unintuitive settings to make them both work together (also maybe including some trial and error). Why not allow both of them to copy/paste the same values around? DONE!

                            Why build an extra and unnecessary wall of confusion and additional steps around this when it could be so easy and straightforward?

                            Again, it just puzzles me, feels incredibly arbitrary and based on what's going on in the forums you can clearly see that people struggle with it.

                            Can a pro use this? Of course! Is it nice and straightforward? Absolutely not. And that's the only thing I am trying to say

                            We have been there at DICE as well...and we had tons of issue where level and cinematic stuff was constantly out of sync. We actually went as far as to combine all that stuff into a tonemapper node! Level lighters and cinematic guys all use that same node and share the same settings across everything. Works like a charm and is just great!

                            Cheers
                            Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                            https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

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                              Sometimes I wish that in-game cameras could work like a human eye... oh well.

                              Just out of curiosity, is it normal that without reflection probes scene looks like that? Directional light's at 70000 lux. (Definitely legit for an otherworldish style though...)
                              Attached Files
                              Release Kra^W patch!

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                                Originally posted by GranMinigun View Post
                                Sometimes I wish that in-game cameras could work like a human eye... oh well.

                                Just out of curiosity, is it normal that without reflection probes scene looks like that? Directional light's at 70000 lux. (Definitely legit for an otherworldish style though...)
                                not enough info on your general setup....could be anything^^
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