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4.19 Physical Lights

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    Originally posted by Nocturness View Post
    Is the new "lighting academy" video of physical lighting coming?I need some explanation and you're the best on this

    There already is one Also, there wont be another one on this topic until Epic has sorted stuff out.
    Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
    https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

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      Originally posted by Rawalanche View Post
      2, Sun disc drawn on the Atmospheric Fog has completely wrong intensity
      Yeah, definitely one of the problems. One of the many ways that Unreal tries to be user friendly but actually makes things difficult by doing so

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        Good feedback! As you know, arch viz being a driver for improvements in this area... our enterprise team is looking at those things. It’s not something that will go unnoticed!

        As the technical product manager for this industry, i am taking good notes of the comments made in this thread.

        If you judge from my background on linked in, you’ll see that the problems you pointed out are very close to my heart.

        We’re looking forward to get it done right!


        Pierre-Felix Breton

        Sr Technical Product Designer AEC, Unreal Engine
        Epic Games - LinkedIn

        Comment


          Originally posted by pf_breton View Post
          Good feedback! As you know, arch viz being a driver for improvements in this area... our enterprise team is looking at those things. It’s not something that will go unnoticed!

          As the technical product manager for this industry, i am taking good notes of the comments made in this thread.

          If you judge from my background on linked in, you’ll see that the problems you pointed out are very close to my heart.

          We’re looking forward to get it done right!

          Man, thank you so much....this sounds absolutely fantastic and is much needed!

          As you might have read already, I have been asking multiple times about the alignment between auto exposure and the cameras, mainly make auto exposure use the same ISO, Aperture (FStop) and timing settings so we can have gameplaystuff aligned with cutscenes (also, it just would be super helpful from an understanding point of view)

          Any thoughts on this?

          Cheers!

          Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
          https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

          Comment


            I have been asking multiple times about the alignment between auto exposure and the cameras, mainly make auto exposure use the same ISO, Aperture (FStop) and timing settings so we can have gameplaystuff aligned with cutscenes (also, it just would be super helpful from an understanding point of view)
            yes that’s all in4.21 already. Have you tried it?

            Auto exposure uses ev100
            a new hdr viz mode let’s you see what’s going on.
            Auto auto exposure can now affect full range (project setting)


            Let us know what you think or need help finding it
            Pierre-Felix Breton

            Sr Technical Product Designer AEC, Unreal Engine
            Epic Games - LinkedIn

            Comment


              Feel like this need a new thread we can link to from here as we go into the new 4.21 update. Super excited to see what people make on the new changes.

              Comment


                I just tested the new sun position calculator plugin and it feels very convenient. I hope it will set the physical value of the sun in the future.

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                  Originally posted by IOchair View Post
                  I just tested the new sun position calculator plugin and it feels very convenient. I hope it will set the physical value of the sun in the future.
                  What plugin is that? It really simple to set up your own Blueprint to derive sun intensity/color based on angle, but it might need an override because most of the time you never use a sun angle ~10 degrees from the horizon because of long shadow view distances and cascaded shadow bias issues if you use the default filtering.

                  I appreciate the new additions for 4.21, especially the min/max auto exposure with EVs. It'd be great to get some view modes to measure per-pixel Luminance and Illuminance based on geo only to get a horizontal Lux reading. Going in and out of the Pixel Inspector can be tedious with the amount of back and forth needed for getting values in range, even more so when you have to disable certain screen-effects every time to not measure Luminance through Bloom.
                  Lighting Artist II @ Crystal Dynamics
                  ArtStation
                  Twitter

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                    Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post

                    What plugin is that?
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	SunCalc.png
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ID:	1549551 ​​​​​​​This one.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by pf_breton View Post

                      yes that’s all in4.21 already. Have you tried it?

                      Auto exposure uses ev100
                      a new hdr viz mode let’s you see what’s going on.
                      Auto auto exposure can now affect full range (project setting)


                      Let us know what you think or need help finding it
                      Soooo...I finally got a chance to have a look...and honestly, I am a tiny little bit frustrated as its again, nothing like I had hoped

                      Also, I might actually be outing myself as the biggest noob now, but I have no **** idea what EV100 is and I honestly dont care. Its not needed for this to work and we dont have that at work either and do just fine. All I was asking for was to make autoexposure and camera use exactly the same settings, which they dont!


                      Click image for larger version  Name:	01.PNG Views:	1 Size:	477.0 KB ID:	1551561
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	02.PNG Views:	1 Size:	255.3 KB ID:	1551562

                      You can see how they clearly do not look the same. And its probably due to the fact that I dont understand what EV100 is. But on the other hand, I think I should not have to! Just make them the same and no one needs to think about weird stuff. I honestly do not understand why it is so hard to get that^^ And I think you guys would agree that using the same values and approaches across multiple things is a good thing, no?

                      PLS, pls, pls make it like this and everything will be great!:

                      Click image for larger version  Name:	ProperExposure.png Views:	1 Size:	41.4 KB ID:	1551563

                      In my opinion, this would solve everything and no one needs to understand what the weird EV100 does as it also has no real relation to cameras. What I proposed above totally does

                      Thank you so much and cheers!


                      EDIT: And really sorry if I come across as rude. Its just so frustrating from my point of view and I dont get why you guys always chose the more complicated way first^^
                      Last edited by Daedalus51; 11-14-2018, 08:08 AM.
                      Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                      https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

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                        EV is entirely related to cameras. It's a single unit based on shutter speed, ISO(generally 100), and f/stop to where any combination that has equal exposure to another combination would use the same EV. Instead of worrying about the individual settings, you can use the EV input. Plus, it provides a real-world measured reference that can get you 90% of the way there just like other physical units. For instance, interiors will likely be around 4 - 8 because of the average luminance found in interiors, but with Auto-Exposure now directly using EVs, we can also adjust for the exposure outside if you get near a window, like up to 13 for the overcast day outside in my scene. There's a minor difference even if you use the viewport EV vs. manual settings, but they're close enough that you won't notice unless you have images side by side like this...



                        Last edited by rosegoldslugs; 11-14-2018, 12:32 PM.
                        Lighting Artist II @ Crystal Dynamics
                        ArtStation
                        Twitter

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                          Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
                          EV is entirely related to cameras. It's a single unit based on shutter speed, ISO(generally 100), and f/stop to where any combination that has equal exposure to another combination would use the same EV. Instead of worrying about the individual settings, you can use the EV input. Plus, it provides a real-world measured reference that can get you 90% of the way there just like other physical units. For instance, interiors will likely be around 4 - 8 because of the average luminance found in interiors, but with Auto-Exposure now directly using EVs, we can also adjust for the exposure outside if you get near a window, like up to 13 for the overcast day outside in my scene. There's a minor difference even if you use the viewport EV vs. manual settings, but they're close enough that you won't notice unless you have images side by side like this...



                          I know what EV is and what its meant for...I meant this EV100 thing doesnt ring a bell. Its obviously some sort of standard to base calculations on. I asked around at work and no Lighting Artist nor TA has ever heard about this at DICE.....so no one was able to enlighten me

                          If I look at your shots, they look the same, which is great! But the values are COMPLETELY different! And exactly that is my issue.

                          What do you say to my mockupshot? I think like this, there would be just no confusion as it would be aligned and straight forward to understand! The values used in autoexposure right now dont make sense as they are inconsistent to the cameras values.

                          The mockup I provided is mostly an interface change with a tiny bit of rewiring behind the scenes and I struggle to understand why no one sees this as a good thing^^

                          Cheers!
                          Last edited by Daedalus51; 11-14-2018, 01:54 PM.
                          Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                          https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

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                            EV100 is just a widely accepted constant for measured values at ISO 100. You can do the math to adjust for different ISOs, but I think it's safe to assume that most EV charts online will be based on an ISO of 100. There's probably a particular reason for film, but only thing I can think of is it's generally more suitable for a wide range of scenes with little visual issues, compared to high ISOs getting grainy. In games I don't think it matters as much since you can change the f-stop and shutter speed for any ISO and get clean results.

                            The values are technically the same, they're just presented differently. An EV of 5 is identical to a shutter speed of 1/4s with an f-stop of 2.8 at ISO 100. It's also identical to a shutter speed of 1s, ISO 100, and a f-stop of 5.6 because both combinations of settings will result in identical exposure. EV5 is just a simpler way to put it.

                            And that's where your settings messed up, you aren't using the right f-stop for an EV of 8 with the shutter speed at 1/125s. Try 1.4. You can use a chart like this Wikipedia one to narrow down the individual camera settings for 'manual mode.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposu...amera_settings
                            Lighting Artist II @ Crystal Dynamics
                            ArtStation
                            Twitter

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                              Originally posted by rosegoldslugs View Post
                              EV100 is just a widely accepted constant for measured values at ISO 100. You can do the math to adjust for different ISOs, but I think it's safe to assume that most EV charts online will be based on an ISO of 100. There's probably a particular reason for film, but only thing I can think of is it's generally more suitable for a wide range of scenes with little visual issues, compared to high ISOs getting grainy. In games I don't think it matters as much since you can change the f-stop and shutter speed for any ISO and get clean results.

                              The values are technically the same, they're just presented differently. An EV of 5 is identical to a shutter speed of 1/4s with an f-stop of 2.8 at ISO 100. It's also identical to a shutter speed of 1s, ISO 100, and a f-stop of 5.6 because both combinations of settings will result in identical exposure. EV5 is just a simpler way to put it.

                              And that's where your settings messed up, you aren't using the right f-stop for an EV of 8 with the shutter speed at 1/125s. Try 1.4. You can use a chart like this Wikipedia one to narrow down the individual camera settings for 'manual mode.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposu...amera_settings
                              The problem is....I get all that My example was specifically made like this to make the point that the scales used are different. But I want the 2 features that deal with exposure to use the same scale. I refer more to sunny 16. Which is mostly defined by ISO 100 and 1/125s. This then results in an FStop of 5-8 for an interior for example or around 10-11 for a cloudy day and around 16 for a full sunny day.

                              Why is the camera exposure setting in line with sunny 16 but the one system I need to use to have a range of lets say f8 to f10 for gameplay is not? Thats my only issue with this Its for the sake of understanding it better and streamlining it for less experienced people. Also it would be easier touse the samevalues for cutscenes and gameplay (with the difference that gameplay would have a range of a few stops if you want)

                              Cheers!

                              Check out UNREAL 4 Lighting Academy
                              https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ng-like-that-)

                              Comment


                                So your original post is about the auto-exposure relying on EVs only? Definitely did not get that. Your images led me to believe your results were not expected because you said you didn't understand EVs

                                Is there a reason you're trying to use the manual one so much? I get the desire to have them both using identical features, but there's very little reason to use the manual mode so I'm just curious. I guess if you're actively trying to replicate someone's setup that isn't covered by the EV configurations or the new DoF is tied to the manual exposure settings(I don't even know if that is on the roadmap or not...), but otherwise I'm at a loss if the visual result is identical. Maybe I'm missing something

                                Lighting Artist II @ Crystal Dynamics
                                ArtStation
                                Twitter

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