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    SSR hazy outlines

    Is there any way to get rid of these hazy outlines and get a solid outline instead? Without going through this and losing a bunch of performance.



    #2
    So you want better quality without increasing the quality?

    You cam use the post process settings for ssr to increase quality without .usf file changes, but even then you would still increase the cost of it.
    Tim Hobson | Learning Resources | Epic Games
    UE4 Documentation

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      #3
      Originally posted by Tim Hobson View Post
      So you want better quality without increasing the quality?

      You cam use the post process settings for ssr to increase quality without .usf file changes, but even then you would still increase the cost of it.
      Well, because increasing the settings through the .usf doesn't help the hazy line but makes it blurrier. Unless values are cranked up so much and frame rate is dropped to ~20.
      What I'm wondering is why there's a hazy effect on top of the meshes (bottom of the reflections)?





      And as you can see increasing SSR quality makes it even worse.






      SSR shouldn't look like that by default in such simple and clean scenario.
      Last edited by Maximum-Dev; 05-29-2017, 05:53 AM.

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        #4
        SSR always look just like that in simple and clean scenario. In real scene it's not that noticeable. If you need super clean reflections for plane then use planar reflections. For SSR to be super sharp you would need to trace each pixels of ray from every pixels. That would need over thousands samples per pixel. For good performance you have budget of about 32-64samples.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Kalle-H View Post
          SSR always look just like that in simple and clean scenario. In real scene it's not that noticeable. If you need super clean reflections for plane then use planar reflections. For SSR to be super sharp you would need to trace each pixels of ray from every pixels. That would need over thousands samples per pixel. For good performance you have budget of about 32-64samples.
          This is a very old version of Cryengine and I'm not tweaking anything. Notice the SSR sharpness and quality. Notice the frame rate as well.






          Help me understand why the same can't be done here without sacrificing so much performance?
          Last edited by Maximum-Dev; 05-29-2017, 11:59 AM.

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            #6
            And as you can see increasing SSR quality makes it even worse.
            To get sharper SSR, instead of increasing quality, establish your own settings by editing values in the shader files.

            Your strategy should be increasing ray samples without increasing number of rays.
            In ScreenSpaceReflections.usf, find a section that defines number of steps and rays for each quality preset, at about line #167(4.14)

            Set desired quality level to something like
            Code:
            NumSteps=32 
            NumRays=1
            It gives pretty decent hard edge.

            If you are still thinking that edges are too blurry at this point, you would either have to increase steps number further, or modify how step offset is calculated. By doing the latter though, you face a bunch of problems, and realistically you can balance between blur/noise and stepping artifacts, but can't pull out quality out of thin air.

            You could also play with disabling hzb. Potentially it will make reflections sharper, but will also incur a performance hit.(There is an exception here. If your project is not using hzb anywhere else, the performance hit might actually be less than cost of setting up hzb.)

            What you are right about is that increasing ray number for SSR seems to actually degrades the quality instead of improving it. Perhaps ray offset could be improved a bit, but the main cause of the issue looks like default quality preset to me.
            High ray numbers with low step counts make it worse.

            Some images:
            Default quality level 3
            8 samples, 4 rays
             
            Spoiler


            Edited quality presset
            32 samples 1 ray
             
            Spoiler


            Edited quality preset with slightly less sample jitter
            32 samples 1 ray
             
            Spoiler
            Last edited by Deathrey; 05-29-2017, 03:07 PM. Reason: added images

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              #7
              [MENTION=146056]Deathrey[/MENTION], Thanks for the very detailed and helpful response.
              I'm now having much better SSR quality at much lower cost.
              I'm only confused by "with slightly less sample jitter" not sure what you actually did there?

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                #8
                I'm only confused by "with slightly less sample jitter" not sure what you actually did there?
                It relates to this phrase
                or modify how step offset is calculated. By doing the latter though, you face a bunch of problems, and realistically you can balance between blur/noise and stepping artifacts, but can't pull out quality out of thin air.
                It is a bit more involved, than changing few values though.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Deathrey View Post
                  It relates to this phrase

                  It is a bit more involved, than changing few values though.
                  Oh I see. Well it's already look so well with 32 Steps 1 Ray (Though I might keep it at 64 Steps 1 Ray since there's no significant cost introduced at all).
                  You're a really helpful member of the community and I'm glad to see you around here.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Maximum-Dev View Post
                    You're a really helpful member of the community and I'm glad to see you around here.
                    [MENTION=146056]Deathrey[/MENTION] > I'd like to second this. What a incredibly insightful reply. Thanks a lot for this!
                    https://www.artstation.com/chesire

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                      #11
                      How about temporal stability? When decreasing rays and increasing samples.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Kalle-H View Post
                        How about temporal stability? When decreasing rays and increasing samples.
                        It is definitely worse.
                        On practice though it is scene-dependent, but commonly, within a set render time, high step count/ low ray number seems to be perceived better than medium step/medium ray count.
                        Overhead of setting up each individual ray is quite high. I had thoughts about trying to additionally scale number of steps by roughness, but did not have neither time nor practical need for that.
                        Last edited by Deathrey; 05-31-2017, 03:06 PM.

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                          #13
                          How do these settings affect something that has a roughness of .4/.3 or so?

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Wilkes View Post
                            How do these settings affect something that has a roughness of .4/.3 or so?
                            The lower ray number is, the more noise you will have at higher roughness. Ray count of 1 essentially disables blurry reflections.
                            Step count's effect does not depend on roughness.

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                              #15
                              Got it, thanks.

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