Apple and Epic and you, the megathread

[UnrealEnterprise]

how catastrophically under-documented Unreal is

Harsh words! But how many on here can really disagree? Epic DGAF about non-licensees anymore.
Personally, I don't recommend UE unless devs are 100% self-sufficient / reliant, and just get on with it.

Unity is the cooler engine and doesn't get the credit for it.

Provocative! But you could say Unity was always the 'cooler' engine. Its easier to use for starters, right?
But will Unity look as good in 5 years? ...IDK... UE lets devs create impressive work with minimal skill.

The bigger risk is that a 20 billion market cap makes the Kings @ Epic become arrogant / decadent.
If so, then UE will suffer! So its best to have a backup option. But is that Unity? GTFOH - Try Godot!!!
Either way I wouldn't bet against Epic (or Tesla too btw). Both have the smartest guys in the room atm.

[spacegojira]

Harsh words! But how many on here can really disagree? Epic DGAF about non-licensees anymore.
Personally, I don't recommend UE unless devs are 100% self-sufficient / reliant, and just get on with it.

Provocative! But you could say Unity was always the 'cooler' engine. Its easier to use for starters, right?
But will Unity look as good in 5 years? ...IDK... UE lets devs create impressive work with minimal skill.

The bigger risk is that a 20 billion market cap makes the Kings @ Epic become arrogant / decadent.
If so, then UE will suffer! So its best to have a backup option. But is that Unity? GTFOH - Try Godot!!!
Either way I wouldn't bet against Epic (or Tesla too btw). Both have the smartest guys in the room atm.

Yeah I have been using Unreal for over 4 years now and I could witness the sharp decline in community-acitivity and support over these years. I also can't recommend UE anymore, especially considering how poorly data-security issues are handled and how everything community-related (e.g. the marketplace or this forum) has gone down in quality so much.

I will eventually switch to Godot, once we finish our current project. Unreal is still the most "shiny" engine on the market, but the shine has begun to wear off a lot recently.


The joke about this whole Epic vs. Apple battle story is, IF Epic actually wins this court battle, it would mean from then on Apple, Steam, Microsoft, GOG and every little dev will be able to publish and sell their game on the Epic store - AND they will NOT have to pay Epic anything. Oh the irony.

[Ego Studio]

Hey !
I've read some of the thread so far. Don't want to get into a deep debate but :
- Sorry for Apple users and we all hope there will be a fair solution for this
- Don't forget that UE is not only free but they support developers
- We all know that the Epic Games team and developers are doing their best, so please don't be too hard with Epic Games / Unreal Engine

Let's stay positive and give our full support to Epic Games.

Cid

[UnrealEnterprise]

Let's stay positive and give our full support to Epic Games.

Looks like banning UE isn't happening anyway (judge has already telegraphed its retaliatory). As regards Fortnite in-app purchases, who knows... Its possible Epic don't care in the short-term anyway. Consider that this whole thing was orchestrated / planned a long time ago (1984 roast). So it was probably done in sync with lobby groups / lawmakers to trigger antitrust law. All they have to do now is show an example of consumers being harmed (Epic willing to charge less versus Apple - even if its all theater). But the part that's still really grating, is that side-loading is bad, but bad security is ok... WTF?

[Dev.Leo]

Because of this, we've now decided to switch back to Unity. We lose some months of work, but it is what it is. Some points:

* I had forgotten how professional Unity is compared to Unreal. Clean API, great docs, lots of features Unreal doesn't have, cloud build, cloud crash reporting, clean and succinct C#, no more hacky hot-reloading and editor crashes. It's so much more developer friendly.

* The only thing that brought us to Unreal was the ability to scale from low-end mobile to high-end desktop in the same project -- a must for us. Unity has now committed to targeting URP and HDRP from the same project for 2021.1. We're two years from release, so we're fine.

* If Epic hadn't threatened the future of Unreal on iOS/Mac (markets we must be in), we might not have realized that Unity was actually better for us, and using Unreal was just chasing shiny things.

* I'm weirdly productive in Unity compared to Unreal.

In the end, we just couldn't stomach how Epic was willing to throw us under the bus. If there's even a 1% chance that Unreal might not be on iOS/Mac for the long haul, we can't make this investment.

So... thanks?

Oh, my god!

I am thinking the same thing as you said.

Once up on a time I was thinking Unreal Engine’s Blueprint is the best mate to meet the shortage of 3D game editor in Xcode for iOS.

I spent years to get into it.

And then they are fighting to each other ...... what a nightmare.

(Unity is busy with IPO now, they are absolutely not interesting in this war, is there any chance to win, why did you start this war?)

[hedgie17]

Returning to topic

Apple was ordered to allow Unreal Engine made games to be released on their platform but Fortnite will stay off the market (for now).

https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/24/ap...off-app-store/

“The record shows potential significant damage to both the Unreal Engine platform itself, and to the gaming industry generally, including on both third-party developers and gamers,” she said, adding that even as Epic Games violated App Store’s guidelines, it did not breach any contracts related to Unreal Engine and developer tools."

"Epic Games claimed last week that developers were already leaving Unreal Engine as uncertainty loomed over its future on Apple ecosystem."

[Allenheathx]

Returning to topic

Apple was ordered to allow Unreal Engine made games to be released on their platform but Fortnite will stay off the market (for now).

https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/24/ap...off-app-store/

“The record shows potential significant damage to both the Unreal Engine platform itself, and to the gaming industry generally, including on both third-party developers and gamers,” she said, adding that even as Epic Games violated App Store’s guidelines, it did not breach any contracts related to Unreal Engine and developer tools."

"Epic Games claimed last week that developers were already leaving Unreal Engine as uncertainty loomed over its future on Apple ecosystem."

Apple just said they were going to ban UE to set the bar high so when they met half way they would be back to where they started (Fortnite's banning). If they wouldn't of mention UE then the focus would be purely on Fortnite and meeting halfway could have been fortnite stays on store with the new purchase option but at the same rate as the apple purchase rate (or something like that).

[Antidamage]

Injunction partially granted: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/...64265.48.0.pdf

Here's one of those details we don't usually consider: Epic International are the ones who provide iOS support in UE, not Epic Games. The injunction seems to have been granted partially on the basis that Epic International is an affiliate.

It looks promising.

[spacegojira]

Apple just said they were going to ban UE to set the bar high so when they met half way they would be back to where they started (Fortnite's banning). If they wouldn't of mention UE then the focus would be purely on Fortnite and meeting halfway could have been fortnite stays on store with the new purchase option but at the same rate as the apple purchase rate (or something like that).

This. Apple can afford to not have Fortnite on their store, they have so so much more money than Epic has. Epic on the other hand can not afford it, much more if their shareholders (especially Tencent) pressure them about the loss of profits.

This is a win for Apple, and a loss for Epic, who was aiming to get Fortnite back on the Apple store but without having to pay the 30% share for their microtransactions (Epic wanted 0%).

[NilsonLima]

There are several things I don't like about the whole subject. I can't agree on Epic doing the move on Fortnite to suddenly put an option to make Apple receive 0% from a purchase, but on the other hand I agree that it should be possible to have other payment options, because 30% is too much and the way it is nothing would stop Apple in the future to raise that much for like 50% or 70%... they could if they wanted and this sort of move is possible because they monopolize the payment option. When you have business as big as Epic has, a good governance dictates how contracts with other parties should be to grant less risk to the company, then investors can rest assured that if a company follows basic guidelines it is a safe bet. Would you put your money in a company which has a contract with another company that could at any time be responsible for cutting more than 30% from your products? Wouldn't you expect to have this value at least fixed forever or negotiable down after some time the product is on the store? Again, by those contracts nothing would stop Apple on increasing those 30% to 50% or even more.

Nevertheless, 30% is way too much, think how much work is to have an app developed, tested, and someone will easily grab 30% of your sales for the effort of maintaining a "app store"? I doubt they have a mathematician or a physics doctorate employee working on their side to have that "app store" running... These are another despicable facts imo.

[Daffrendo]

What do we want?
#FreeFortnite
When do we want it - NOW
If we don't get FreeFortnite
BURN IT DOWN (...w/Niagara Particles)

Very impressed with Epic's Integrity, it takes a lot of conviction to take a stand like this.

[UnrealEnterprise]

NilsonLima

30% is way too much, think how much work is to have an app developed, tested, and someone will easily grab 30% of your sales for the effort of maintaining a "app store"? I doubt they have a mathematician or a physics doctorate employee working on their side to have that "app store" running... These are another despicable facts imo.

Its worse than that. I don't know about Brazil, but in many parts of the world, its not just 30%, its 30% plus another 30% for FORCED US withholding tax. After factoring dev costs, you're lucky to come away with 30% in the end! If cost of living is a fraction of the US, then maybe ok, but otherwise its unworkable!

[rexmaximilian]

So now that Apple has deleted the Epic Developer account, does this mean they can no longer provide, or even work on updates for Unreal Engine and Twinmotion for Mac?

[NilsonLima]

So now that Apple has deleted the Epic Developer account, does this mean they can no longer provide, or even work on updates for Unreal Engine and Twinmotion for Mac?

What was terminated is the developer account used to publish Fortnite on iOS/Mac, the other accounts are on a different party id, so Unreal Engine won't be affected... for now.

[NilsonLima]

NilsonLima


Its worse than that. I don't know about Brazil, but in many parts of the world, its not just 30%, its 30% plus another 30% for FORCED US withholding tax. After factoring dev costs, you're lucky to come away with 30% in the end! If cost of living is a fraction of the US, then maybe ok, but otherwise its unworkable!

Basically is the same all over the world.