MMO Starter Kit

[KITATUS]

It ain't about the size of your world, it's about the content you fill it with!

[CyberDev]

It ain't about the size of your world, it's about the content you fill it with!

That is absolutely not true at all, World of warcraft is a great example, many huge distances and zones are filled with nothing but trees, and I still love flying through them at fast speeds because it gives a feeling of huge scale and immersion in a huge world,

Unless your game doesnt have vehicles or fast transportation, environments dont always need to be filled with crazy stuff all the time, I really don't like this statement you made I see it alot and its really to me just an excuse for not having a large playeable space...

Also we don't even know if this 20km is actually playable with no precision issues, Epic hasnt even responded as to weather its been tested, for all we know it could be only 8-10 same as cryengine, were going on the basis that physics had an update which made floating point precision better, but no one really knows yet, and if its only 8 then thats still pretty small...

Glad that you will consider it though Spartan, I mean couldnt it be as simple as setting up huge triggers around the whole map and when you get to one on the killZ just run the console command to connect to the right ip of the server running the next part of the world?

Then keeping your sql database linked so you still have all your items / stats on the other server too that would really make it nice!

[Veovis Muad'dib]

Then keeping your sql database linked so you still have all your items / stats on the other server too that would really make it nice!

At that point I think you'd want to have a Character/Authentication server, and multiple UE/Custom servers for actual gameplay. When you launch the game you authenticate, download all your equipment, and then choose a regional server. (or get that info from the database on the Char server and automatically connect to the right game server)

Actually the regional servers should each talk to the database instead, and that way you have a trusted connection so you can be slightly less cautious about letting characters pick up new equipment. Still want to have them on different machines though.

[KITATUS]

@CyberDev - I guess it boils down to personal preference; You can tell a story with landscapes yes, but you want to keep your player's attention; So many MMOs have the tried and true Walk here, Get a mount and go here but as Scott Rogers says "If walking is gameplay, something is wrong".

A lot of new MMOs are using each other as a branching point but I see hardly any that are trying to break new ground and try new things. You see it with FPS games as well where they use the same formula as previous FPS games and tweak just one or two features; Many MMOs copy the last and tweak one or two things - Something that anyone on this forum could change - If walking is not gameplay in every other game, why does it count as gameplay in an MMO?

Anyway, Back to topic

[iniside]

@CyberDev - I guess it boils down to personal preference; You can tell a story with landscapes yes, but you want to keep your player's attention; So many MMOs have the tried and true Walk here, Get a mount and go here but as Scott Rogers says "If walking is gameplay, something is wrong".

A lot of new MMOs are using each other as a branching point but I see hardly any that are trying to break new ground and try new things. You see it with FPS games as well where they use the same formula as previous FPS games and tweak just one or two features; Many MMOs copy the last and tweak one or two things - Something that anyone on this forum could change - If walking is not gameplay in every other game, why does it count as gameplay in an MMO?

Anyway, Back to topic

Not true. I personally hate that most of new games are designed as hub walks. Go to hub, do tasks here, move to next hub. That's not different that invisible walls, and closed corridor design.

Big open world games are fun, when you don't know what to expect and when to expect something. Big open world games need to be designed around emergent gameplay, not directed one. You must embrace he fact that play can and will do things in your game that you did not predicted.

As for question why walking is gameplay in MMO. If MMO is open world, with PvP, you can always walk into another player.

As matter of fact walking is big part of gameplay even in games like Skyrim, or recently DAI. And I'm honestly bit disappointed that DAI do not have bigger zones, which just look cool and doesn't have anything particular to do except walking around.

To each their own, but I think directed and clearly defined gameplay experience in big open world game, is just bad design, which just works against what players expect in those games.

People who like directed experience will not like the fact that there is open world, and people who expected "i can do whatever" will be disappointed that game have clear boundaries.

[Necrophob30]

Some people like the emergent game play of big open-world mmos (WoW Tarren Mill battles before battlegrounds), while others like more focused gameplay (WoW after battlegrounds).

[CyberDev]

I guess it's personal preference and your own opinion which defines what a good mmo / open world game really is, don't forget about games like dayZ though. I know you are trying to replicate something more like world of warcraft, but theres alot of us out here that would buy a project like this to make a game like dayZ. The forests are so big, and its not all filled with content, only cities here and there. The feeling of being free to roam around, especially in the amra 2 version with vehicles and never knowing when you will encounter a player on the way to a mission or city is really fun.

Also having many servers where you keep all your gear / stats is great in case the game is too popular and we begin worrying about too many players in one server, I think its only safe to assume we will need your sql database to work with multiple servers even just in case a game does well or we don't want too many players on one map / server

I just think for some reason we dont really have 20km to work with we have more like 8 because it hasnt been tested and I think its too good to be true, which for my project forces me to need multiple interconnected maps / servers, hopefully its not too difficult to implement this and you can think about it at some point,

but I know like I said before theres much more other stuff to be done & I'm excited about it all!

[ProfessionsQuest]

This looks absolutely amazing! I wish we had something like this when we first sat down to make what we are currently making. Do you happen to have a time frame on when you will release this?

[Julio Litwin]

@CodeSpartan
Anything new? Any update?

[CodeSpartan]

This looks absolutely amazing! I wish we had something like this when we first sat down to make what we are currently making. Do you happen to have a time frame on when you will release this?

@CodeSpartan
Anything new? Any update?

Writing the documentation currently and also hired a 3d artist to create a new demo character model and animations. I hope I'll be able to submit this to the Marketplace early next week.


Regarding the MMO concept discussion you've got going on here , I pretty much agree with iniside:

People who like directed experience will not like the fact that there is open world, and people who expected "i can do whatever" will be disappointed that game have clear boundaries.

[Chosker]

oh balls I missed the stress test


also I would agree with this

People who like directed experience will not like the fact that there is open world, and people who expected "i can do whatever" will be disappointed that game have clear boundaries.

but then again even if you like more free and emergent open worlds, WoW is only 14x14 km (8.94x8.94 miles) and this includes both continents plus all the hypothetical sea space between them. DayZ is 15x15 km, Skyrim is 5.5x6.6 km, and I can't find the world size for DAI.

so my point here is, I'm pretty sure 20x20km is large enough area even for emergent and free roaming openworld gameplay. be it for larger studios, and much more for us hobbyists/indies (the people this Starter Kit is mostly targetted at)

additionally, you guys are only counting the pure outdoors area. many games have underground caves and tunnels, fortress and tower mazes, and towns and cities. adding gameplay-dense areas into the mix makes the world feel larger, and this is something that Oblivion and Skyrim did nicely

and also sometimes the worlds are just too large. when games (like Skyrim) add fast travelling mechanics, to me it means there's something wrong with the world size + game design combo

[Veovis Muad'dib]

and also sometimes the worlds are just too large. when games (like Skyrim) add fast travelling mechanics, to me it means there's something wrong with the world size + game design combo

Skyrim's world is a little too small for my tastes, and I don't ever use fast travel.

But then I install hardcore survival mods so you have to stay warm and fed, and lots of graphics mods so walking around in the woods is pretty. Basically I played it like Day Z before Day Z came out.

[CyberDev]

Veovis Muad'dib are you able to get a reply from Epic as to weather the bigger 20km area has been tested and has no precision issues that far away from the origin, since you are a mod? Some say its more like 8 same as CE, I'm not sure if it has even been tested at all

[Toom]

Veovis Muad'dib are you able to get a reply from Epic as to weather the bigger 20km area has been tested and has no precision issues that far away from the origin, since you are a mod? Some say its more like 8 same as CE, I'm not sure if it has even been tested at all

I am fairly certain the move to increase the land size to 20km was not something done on a whim without zero testing. I bet they did atleast some testing to make sure there was no issues there otherwise they would have not pushed it out and just waited for there really large world support / update.

[HeadClot]

Hey Code Spartan,

Any update on this?

Really want to use this