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    #46
    Thank you for the tips kraid!

    I will put this in practice.

    The reason why I didn't put phong tag in every meshes was to avoid some smooth corner issues. I mean, some sharped corner wasn't sharp anymore. but, I definitely missed the "import normals and tangents". Anyway, I will try again with phong tag in all meshes.

    There is only one thing that I am not sure if I understood you... when you say: "The face material inconsistency is usually caused by a wrong tag setup. Try to have the material tags of all objects on the very left of the stack"
    I am scare that I will need more explanation about how to resolve and achieve this because I think this is my main problem.

    I want to specify that my knowledge in cinema 4D is somehow limited. I always use archicad as my modelling software and cinema 4D for props (objects, trees and landscapes) and rendering process... all my textures and materials came from Archicad with cinerender (cinema 4D renders inside Archicad) and this workflow was very good (for static archviz obviously). So before working with UE4, cinema 4D was my "ending" software.

    thank you again!
    EnTRE+ Architects
    Arq. Alexandre Larouche
    http://www.entrestudio.com

    Comment


      #47
      On the phong Tag you can change the angle limit. The shading will be smoothed across faces that have an angle smaller then this value and if the angle is bigger then the set value it'll create a hard edge. (so for a simple cube everything up to 89° will result in hard edges)

      Additionally you can always select some edges (in edge mode), right click and select "break phong shading" from the context menue.
      Now if the checkbox "evaluate broken edges" is checked, these edges will stay sharp no matter what phong angle is used.

      As for the Tag stacking, you should move all Material Tags of an object in Object Manager to the left by drag&drop.
      Cinema reads the stack left to right. so a Material-Tag left of another Material-Tag means this Material is applied first and below the other material.

      You can have overlapping material selections in C4D, they will cause no issues on export.
      But you cannot have faces without a material assigned, this will cause a face material inconsistency for sure.

      If you're uncertain if a mesh has every face assigned to a material, just make the lowest material in the stack (the one that is left of every other material tag)
      global by not using any material selection for it.
      (click on the Material tag, go to the "Tag" Tab and if there's the name of a polygon selection written in the selection field, delete that text)

      BTW: If you need additional information about anything like a Tag, Tool or attribute in C4D, just right click on it and choose help from the context menue.
      This will open up the C4D Help Manual and present you exactly the part with the information about it.
      Last edited by kraid; 08-07-2016, 05:16 PM.

      Comment


        #48
        I've been using C4D even more than usual lately, so I'll add my two cents:

        1. If you're building with procedural shapes (lathe, extrusion, loft, etc (AND YOU SHOULD BE THEY ARE GREAT)) turn on "backface culling" for your viewport. Most of the procedural shapes need either their hull or cap normals flipped and they all have checkboxes with which to do this.

        1.a. Just as an aside, you have weird disappearing geometry even after flipping normals be aware that C4D doesn't always like all of your values on procedural shapes to be round numbers. Try adding .001 to a rotation or position value and see if that helps. Same deal for booleans and procedural shapes. This is the worst bug ever but it's easily accommodated.

        2. Smoothing-friendly import settings in UE: turn OFF normal calculations in your build settings for your C4D-originating mesh in UE. This is the only way to preserve your phong smoothing. Ignore UE warnings about a lack of smoothing groups.

        2.a. Also consider turning off "remove degenerates", particularly if you know your mesh is clean and tidy. This sometimes solves problems with UE messing up carefully cultivated normals.

        3. Apply at least one material to EVERYTHING. Do it. You want to do this. Also make sure everything has a UV map. Without a material a mesh won't have a UV map. Also if some polygons in your mesh aren't represented in the UV map UE will ignore them when doing a lighting UV layout. This most often happens if you have weirdo geometry passing through C4D as an import pipeline step.

        4. Go nuts with polygon-selection materials. These are great. These are better than individual meshes per material.

        5. Check your UVs. Quite often the default layouts are undesirable, so at the least go into the UV edit layout and fit all of the polygons to the canvas. If you're not manually unwrapping, consider letting C4D do a nice programmatic UV layout for you.

        If you follow these steps you'll get great results. If there's something wrong with your models, chances are it's covered by an item in this list.

        C4D and UE DO work great together but you've got the triple check your normals, UVs and materials.
        Last edited by Antidamage; 08-07-2016, 10:25 PM.

        Comment


          #49
          Thanks you guys for your answers!

          I think with all those tips and a dedicate analyze of my own workflow I found the way to resolve it! I only tried it over some meshes and I still need to try it out on every mesh, but for now it is working.

          So here is my workflow for now. I hope it can help someone else that has the same workflow.

          1. It seem that in Archicad, exporting from the "photorendering settings" allow a better export to C4D (see first linked image). I don't know why but the meshes look cleaner in C4D.
          2. In C4D instead of delete the default UVW map creating during the export. I keep it, change its name to "UVW0". After that, I duplicate it, rename it "UVW1" and do exactly JayCox instructions for the unwrap map. Archicad and C4D have a really good connections so I trusted them this time and its look like the auto UV map keep good scale and orientation of materials.
          3. Exporting to fbx (see second linked image)
          4. Importing in UE4 : I change the normal import to "normal and tangent" thanks to Kraid ! you can see in the ultimate linked image the difference between my first import and the new one. The UV scale and orientation look much better.

          I repeat it, I only did this process on few meshes, so maybe some errors will occurs in the futur. So don't take this workflow as the "perfect solution"

          During this process, sometimes I get this error "Warning "meshName" has degenerate tangent bases which will result in incorrect shading. Consider enabling Recompute Tangents in the mesh's Build Settings" it didn't look to make any problems for now, but it would be great to avoid any error message (except the smoothing error that we can ignore)

          I also tried to import meshes turning off "remove degenerates" like Antidamage said, but it didn't seem to change anything visible for now.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Entrestudio; 08-10-2016, 07:44 PM.
          EnTRE+ Architects
          Arq. Alexandre Larouche
          http://www.entrestudio.com

          Comment


            #50
            The UVs look everything but ideal for lightmap generation.

            Here's an example how it could be done:
            http://www.mediafire.com/download/nb...iling_test.fbx

            Since the bars on top are to thin to cast any noticable shadows on it's sides, the whole upper part can be mapped planar.

            Comment


              #51
              Thanks you Kraid for your tips

              But in fact, those "bars" are in reality holes in the mesh (negative boolean). I use them to imitate a concrete floor with expansion joint. here an image in UE4 (without the texture). I don't know if it will be possible to make only one plan for the top surface with this detail. But you are right, the unwrap map isn't simple. There is probably a better way to do it manually. This is one of most complex mesh in my project. that is why I tested the uvw creation on this one first.

              Click image for larger version

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              Last edited by Entrestudio; 08-11-2016, 09:36 PM.
              EnTRE+ Architects
              Arq. Alexandre Larouche
              http://www.entrestudio.com

              Comment


                #52
                I reexported all my meshes and everything looked good, but when I built up my level I got some issues with those floors, like you saw it Kraid. Look like I resolved all others meshes... that is a good improve, but those one still wrong.

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                Attached Files
                Last edited by Entrestudio; 08-12-2016, 06:36 PM.
                EnTRE+ Architects
                Arq. Alexandre Larouche
                http://www.entrestudio.com

                Comment


                  #53
                  Even easier in that case:
                  http://www.mediafire.com/download/3e...floortiles.fbx

                  If you want a soft transition on the lightmap, keep the sides attatched to the top in Lightmap UVs.
                  If it needs to be hard and sharp detatch them from the top and provide enough margin between the UV islands.
                  (read that up on the lightmap UV guide)

                  Haven't tested this example ingame yet. so not sure how lightmaps will turn out.
                  If there's substancial shadowmap bleeding across the edges, detatching the sides or increasing the lightmap scale drastically would be neccessary.

                  When i think about it now, it might be best to detatch the sides anyway.
                  Since the file is allready uploaded and just an example, i won't edit that now.

                  Maybe import the fbx to C4D and try to fix it yourself.

                  Allmost forgot: the issues you see in your models shadowmaps are likely caused by your Lightmap UV layout.
                  Like the parts with different shading got detatched from the rest of the island and possibly lying distored in another spot on the UV canvas,
                  where they recive some bad shading from other nearby islands.
                  Last edited by kraid; 08-14-2016, 08:18 PM.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Thank you for the example Kraid,

                    My general understanding of uv mapping and lightmaps are now far better. Unfortunately I didn't find the way to manually modify the UVW map.

                    So I exported them to 3ds max and I did the uvw map in it. It look like this resolve the problem even if it is not the best workflow. I mean "dancing" between two different software to do the same process may have worked in this case but doing this in a bigger project or a more complex one will probably slow down the process.
                    EnTRE+ Architects
                    Arq. Alexandre Larouche
                    http://www.entrestudio.com

                    Comment


                      #55
                      C4D users outside of this forum vehemently defend C4D's UV editing tools but truth is they're pretty bad. Simple click-and-drag a polygon? Watch it slip and slide all over the place. Basically a very shoddy tool and mostly unusable outside of automatically laying out hard-edged models.

                      On the other hand 3D Coat is an amazing UV unwrapper, especially for organic forms. It's like 3DS Max and then some again. There's a demo that you can try.

                      There's nothing wrong with this workflow, really. In fact you might be less likely to prematurely start UV unwrapping by mistake.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Thanks you Antidamage, I never used 3d Coat. I knew it to be a software similar to Substance but I didn't know it had a friendly uv mapping toolset. I will try it to see if it fit my needs.
                        EnTRE+ Architects
                        Arq. Alexandre Larouche
                        http://www.entrestudio.com

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Hi,

                          You can get the C4D Substance plugin for Free here.
                          https://www.allegorithmic.com/substance-cinema4d

                          CHeers,
                          Wes
                          Allegorithmic Community Manager - Substance Specialist
                          twitter: The3DNinja

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by WesleyMcDermott View Post
                            Hi,

                            You can get the C4D Substance plugin for Free here.
                            https://www.allegorithmic.com/substance-cinema4d

                            CHeers,
                            Wes
                            I thought they will be adding Substance Integration with C4D R18.
                            I'll surely try out if it allready works in R17 though.

                            Originally posted by Antidamage View Post
                            C4D users outside of this forum vehemently defend C4D's UV editing tools but truth is they're pretty bad. Simple click-and-drag a polygon? Watch it slip and slide all over the place. Basically a very shoddy tool and mostly unusable outside of automatically laying out hard-edged models.

                            On the other hand 3D Coat is an amazing UV unwrapper, especially for organic forms. It's like 3DS Max and then some again. There's a demo that you can try.

                            There's nothing wrong with this workflow, really. In fact you might be less likely to prematurely start UV unwrapping by mistake.
                            I know that C4Ds UV tools are somewhat dated and haven't recived a major upgrade in years while other programms made huge progress with that.
                            But they're not as bad as you make them looking with your post.

                            In fact i don't have any major isues doing all my UV maps in C4D and never felt it to be bad enough to transfer my models to other apps just for doing the UVs there.
                            I've done organic and hard surface models, too. I'd even say it's easier to unwrap organic models then hard surface stuff, since you often have less UV islands to work with, while a well optimized hard surface Lowpoly used for baking highpoly maps onto it, needs to be split into so many small chunks.

                            Sure, the Tools need an update and sadly R18 doesn't come with it. (they announced it to be included in the service update to R18)
                            I just hope they do not decide to push it back to R19 or something.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              And there's the vehement denial You can't avoid the fact that the tools are broken and you're limited to numeric and scripted operations because mouse interactivity with UV maps is objectively unusable. I consider one of the major piece of the UI being unusable to be pretty broken.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Not sure what you're talking about Antidamage.
                                I use my mouse all the time to arrange UVs.

                                The only things i really miss is the ability to work with a customizable grid (e.g. for Lightmap creation)
                                and that neat UV join feature where you just select an edge and have the adjacent UV piece snap to it automatically.
                                (i think i saw that in 3dsMax)

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