Why C++ for Unreal 4?

[Cube2222]

C++ is good for some tasks and blueprints too. Main gameplay can be done with both, I prefer c++ but it's just me. I'm a programmer, maybe that's the reason.

However, in my opinion, things like, already mentioned missions, moving doors, all level design things should be done with blueprints, because performance of such "one time "things isn't really critical.

[Gigantoad]

Nothing backfired. I am a guy who can afford to put fuel in my Ferrari and that's why I drive it. You are obviously a guy who at most can afford to drive fiesta. Good luck with that!

So that's where your earlier "analogy" came from. You just confirmed in this sentence it made no sense whatsoever. It's nothing more than a status symbol. You are not driving a Ferrari because you need the performance, you drive it for fun and because you can afford it.

A programming language isn't entertainment. Anyone can afford C++. It's a tool to work and like any tool it needs to be the right one for the job.

[timconwell]

Found this link which might be appropriate for this discussion: http://bjorn.tipling.com/if-programm...s-were-weapons

Anyway, wow did I have a wall-o-text to add here, but, maybe some of the funny in the link above is good enough. There's a lot of really smart people in this thread, giving good arguments and well thought out reasoning. Just seems to me that there might be little more to add on the topic, and perhaps a better outlet would be in order. Maybe clearing up some answerhub questions or tutorials? That could make for a more effective debate. I mean...seems pretty clear that a larger portion of the anti-C++ debate comes from people who don't primarily program in it...so, let's help them make it their go-to language. Right?

[smallB]

You are not driving a Ferrari because you need the performance, you drive it for fun and because you can afford it.

I drive it because:
it is fun,
its status
and gives fantastic performance.

A programming language isn't entertainment.

C++ can be if you know it well enough.

Anyone can afford C++. It's a tool to work and like any tool it needs to be the right one for the job.

Yep, and game programming is done best in a language which gives you best possible performance whilst allowing you to be productive. C++ is that language. C++ *IS* the language of gaming industry.

[Gigantoad]

Yep, and game programming is done best in a language which gives you best possible performance. C++ is that language. C++ *IS* the language of gaming industry.

How about gameplay programming? You know, opening doors? I brought the example up before, including the usefulness of blueprints. You never adressed it.

[smallB]

How about gameplay programming? You know, opening doors? I brought the example up before, including the usefulness of blueprints. You never adressed it.

Sure, some *very* trivial tasks like door opening, light switching on/off can be done via blueprints and I agree with this. To a gameplay I was rather referring as AI, game logic and the likes. Not to very trivial tasks as opening/closing door.

[The_E]

I mean...seems pretty clear that a larger portion of the anti-C++ debate comes from people who don't primarily program in it...so, let's help them make it their go-to language. Right?

I don't think there is an "anti-C++ debate". There's an anti-"C++ is the best for everything everywhere" one though.

[timconwell]

I don't think there is an "anti-C++ debate". There's an anti-"C++ is the best for everything everywhere" one though.

True, that was a poor choice of wording. Just, wow, I've been involved with internet forums for so long, mostly involving gaming starting back with original EQ. After so much time, the patterns are always the same. Debates rage on not so much about right vs wrong, but about perspective. Like in a yeah you're right but not in the right way. If everyone here got together for beers, in about 20 minutes everyone would be on the same page since you'd have body language and tone of voice to aid the discussion. But failing those aids, the debates drag on, never end, and little is ever accomplished to justify the effort.

Just, there's usually a point where the dead horse has been beaten so much that the "beaters" have nothing else to hit but each other. So, let's not go there, better productivity to be had elsewhere.

[Gigantoad]

Sure, some *very* trivial tasks like door opening, light switching on/off can be done via blueprints and I agree with this. To a gameplay I was rather referring as AI, game logic and the likes. Not to very trivial tasks as opening/closing door.

So you contradict yourself.

If I have option a - run 200% faster (at least) and option b - run 200% slower (at best), I use option a - every time.

C# doesn't give you anything, takes virtually everything from you. Why would I want that?

Clearly, you do not use the fastest option every time, and for good reason. Guess what a large part of any game consists of? Trivial stuff like that. Not to mention you can do a lot less trivial things in blueprints and get away with it, but I won't even try to convince you of that.

C# doesn't give you anything, takes virtually everything from you. Why would I want that?

You answered your own question. Just substitute C# with blueprints, which both serve the same purpose.

[furrykef]

I'm in AAA industry not in mobile that's why I would never ever drive my Ferrari in such place. It is simply not my kind of place, as I'm considering myself and the work I do as AAA and not mobile as the picture shows.

Good for you. How many of the rest of us are making AAA games? I for one am definitely not. I don't have millions of dollars to throw around and I likely never will. That probably describes most of the people here.

P.S.
I've been using C++ for over a decade now. Nothing beats it, especially in game industry.

I've been using it for something like 16 years and I still think performance is a bad reason to code an indie game in C++. I would probably use C++ for the engine of any sizeable game I make, but it would be for its compatibility with libraries, not for performance. Even then, if the game is sufficiently large, I'd use a scripting engine for game logic.


It's also worth noting that John Carmack once seriously pondered the idea of writing a game engine in Haskell. Not just the scripting stuff, but the whole game. As much as I don't like to make "appeal to authority" arguments, I would say John Carmack probably knows a lot more about performance than you.

[VegasRich]

Macros, are used for code reflection (RTTI) and code generation. I have no idea, why you jumping on macros. C++ doesn't have any build in decoration semantics for class, functions, properties, etc.

Macros can be used for code reflection - there are better ways. It's not 1989 any more....

[Gigantoad]

Good for you. How many of the rest of us are making AAA games? I for one am definitely not. I don't have millions of dollars to throw around and I likely never will. That probably describes most of the people here.

There's actually a funny foot note on that. AAA games aren't doing very well. here's just one story:

http://www.gamesradar.com/aaa-gaming...oblem-turtles/

The notion that AAA game developers would use C++ only because of performance while ignoring development productivity is actually hilarious in that context. You can bet that AAA studios will be the first to use lighter scripting wherever they can get away with it.

Hell, if the existance and importance of Blueprints in UE4 isn't convincing enough, listen to what they do in the SnowDrop engine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWGbwo0Q4E

[newbprofi]

The notion that AAA game developers would use C++ only because of performance while ignoring development productivity is actually hilarious in that context.

C++ more productive than C#. Period.
UE4 C++ 10x times more productive than normal C++ and 20x times more productive than C#.

Here the graph:

[Gigantoad]

C++ more productive than C#. Period.
UE4 C++ 10x times more productive than normal C++ and 20x times more productive than C#.

Absolutely. Especially since there is no C# in UE4 which makes it fairly unproductive.

A comparison with blueprints would make more sense.

[The_E]

C++ more productive than C#. Period.
UE4 C++ 10x times more productive than normal C++ and 20x times more productive than C#.

Do you have actual data supporting that graph, or did you just make it up based on your preconceptions?