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UE4 - Anti-piracy BP time bomb with real date for Steam?

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    UE4 - Anti-piracy BP time bomb with real date for Steam?

    Hi, I have faced an impressive amount of piracy for games released on Steam, IMPRESSIVE... you have no idea, how much and how "fast" even 1 hour after a release or an update, you can already find it in up to 10 piracy sites, that strong... , and now I'm working on a time bomb, using a "UTcnow" node, it is very easy to use this node to take the time from a machine.... but, a lot of people do not have the right date, others use a piracy windows version with a changed date to, for example year 2040, then using this node is useless... because you could also affect people who did buy your game, others could change their windows date manually,

    So, what can I do? is there another method to make a timebomb? could you take the time from Steam? even do, you can actually play offline...LOL

    thanks
    Last edited by DraxFX; 10-26-2020, 03:12 AM.

    #2
    Originally posted by DraxFX View Post
    Hi, I have faced an impressive amount of piracy for games released on Steam, IMPRESSIVE... you have no idea, how much and how "fast" even 1 hour after a release or an update, you can already find it in up to 10 piracy sites, that strong... , and now I'm working on a time bomb, using a "UTcnow" node, it is very easy to use this node to take the time from a machine.... but, a lot of people do not have the right date, others use a piracy windows version with a changed date to, for example year 2040, then using this node is useless... because you could also affect people who did buy your game, others could change their windows date manually,

    So, what can I do? is there another method to make a timebomb? could you take the time from Steam? even do, you can actually play offline...LOL

    thanks
    There is no answer, basically.
    Check out Zof ( puzzle game ) on Steam:

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1414480/Zof/

    Comment


      #3
      ^ This ^...

      That 'Timebomb' idea will either fail spectacularly or just backfire!
      Be honest dude, how many copies have you sold so far anyway?
      You should focus instead on trying to build up a community imho.
      Fighting piracy is like Trump trying to fix coroni (already given up).
      Last edited by UnrealEnterprise; 10-26-2020, 07:20 AM.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      What are the BEST Unreal Tutorials / Docs? There are none tbh... Here's why
      Instead its better to just take projects apart (see the free 'creators' listed here)

      Comment


        #4
        LOL...I have friends (developers) who have massive communities on Steam, and they say that most of the questions on their Discord channels come from people who play the decrypted cracked versions ... so they basically never respond, and their sales never reflect their followers, so. .. trying to build a community without anti-piracy, it makes the sales curve go down even faster until it is impossible to handle; it's like Trump trying to lie, and say that there is no problem, and people are safe, while Covid spreads even faster by not taking any action... If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem, because you are not helping to prevent it.

        Last edited by DraxFX; 11-02-2020, 09:19 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          If ^ this ^ was true as a general rule, Steamspy would show a massive fall off in numbers and it isn't! You need to release free demos at the beginning though, then what's there to pirate? That's the thing about Indie game dev atm. As a lone indie you have no shot at success. Even a small team has a better chance, as you can devote resources to Community while you attempt a kickstarter / indiegogo campaign, while also contacting streamers / publishers / influencers. Its been like this since 2012-2014. Its a dream killer for many, but there you go...
          Last edited by UnrealEnterprise; 11-03-2020, 02:07 AM.
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          What are the BEST Unreal Tutorials / Docs? There are none tbh... Here's why
          Instead its better to just take projects apart (see the free 'creators' listed here)

          Comment


            #6
            So how would the big boys handle this? piracy is like covid?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by pickersZ View Post
              So how would the big boys handle this? piracy is like covid?
              Piracy is huge on physical products as well, so firms spend their way out of it on celebs / brand marketing mostly.
              Large players can also offer free games with sign-in and 'addictive Loot boxes', which is its own controversial topic.
              Piracy is just a reality of life and the cost of doing business. It always has been, travel to SEAsia / SAmerica. But...
              You can outsell piracy! However Indies rarely have a marketing budget, so they can't spend their way to a solution.

              BTW:
              Steam isn't a friend of indies, its their enemy! But most devs still prefer to let it 'use them' instead of them 'using it'.
              Same goes for all the app stores!!! There's no money to be made on there. This is the biggest open secret on here...
              Last edited by UnrealEnterprise; 11-03-2020, 03:16 AM.
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              What are the BEST Unreal Tutorials / Docs? There are none tbh... Here's why
              Instead its better to just take projects apart (see the free 'creators' listed here)

              Comment


                #8
                The people who pirate your game are either those who boycott your stupid DMR requiring you to be online for a single player game (UBI being your leading example for this BS), or poor folks/kids who cannot afford to pay for the actual thing and have to settle for an inferior version.

                More often than not, those who pirate a game and like it will actually purchase said game if it has replayability value and/or they can finally afford to purchase it outright.

                Instead of focusing on anti piracy - which is BS since there is literally nothing you can do about it - focus on the product by releasing new DLCs, updates, fixes, new features etc.
                The new content alone is usually enough to keep your company running.

                going free to play is also an immediate anti-piracy noteworthy method.
                make an area of the game free to play, and those who like and enjoy your game end up purchasing the upgrades.
                This is tried and true, you have examples from world of war craft to dungeons and dragons online, to black desert, to literally another billion examples.
                Mind you, most of those are MMOs, so they require you to be online. Single player experiences are harder to find with this format, but they usually exist in the way of a Demo as explained above. Same concept, different pathway.

                Another innovative approach is to let people mod away like there is no tomorrow... Ark could potentially be an example of this if the people running Wildcard weren't so obtuse as to completely ignore any player feedback... they did lead on steam sales for several months, maybe even years. Again, this can also come down to the fact the game is mostly MMO and yea you can pirate it, but the latest version update is needed to join a server and all of that.


                Re the statement that the appstore(s) make you no money. Thats BS and you know it.
                Look at **** games like Game of War that make 0 logical sense to anyone and have "packages" being sold for $99 and idiots who purchase one a day or more... (again its an MMO, jeez, i guess all i do is read about MMOs)...

                There is potential to be able to make money on there, but yes, your APK is immediately put onto another billion mirrors that offer it free (not sure how many root their phone voiding warranty in America though, in Europe you definitely have less of a market to begin with, not going to argue against that one).

                either way, the point is/was... make an mmo? Joking. I hate MMOs, can't argue that most of them are extremely successfully though.

                No, the point is, piracy is there and isn't going to go away. The more you fight it, the more your sales drop....

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by MostHost LA View Post
                  No, the point is, piracy is there and isn't going to go away. The more you fight it, the more your sales drop....
                  Basically this.

                  Link: For example, you may have never used Photoshop before but you've certainly heard of it and know what it does. That's worth a lot of money to a brand; you may recommend it to a friend.

                  And so it follows if only a few people know about your great application, you're gonna need to spend more money marketing it; which means less money going into software development.
                  Link: In her talk at the Annual Conference of the Royal Economic Society, Oxford economist Karen Croxson suggests that piracy does not necessarily undermine profit as pirates may actually help to promote the product they steal.
                  If you equate warez copies with sales then you are kidding yourself. Instead, understand that these people are all potential customers. The real problems are aim bots, wall hacks, database breaches etc.
                  Last edited by unit23; 11-03-2020, 04:20 AM.
                  [LEGENDS of EPICA]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by MostHost LA View Post
                    Re the statement that the appstore(s) make you no money. Thats BS and you know it. Look at **** games like Game of War that make 0 logical sense to anyone and have "packages" being sold for $99 and idiots who purchase one a day or more...
                    Sure, make a sht game / app, and spend money instead marketing it on Facebook to fools.
                    People have been getting scammed like this since the beginning of time with no easy fixes.
                    But a scam is just a scam, its not a sustainable biz model to most devs here so why sell it...


                    Originally posted by MostHost LA View Post
                    There is potential to be able to make money on there
                    There is potential, but its not always easy or ethical money (something recurring / something reliable)... What percentage of people selling apps or games today on Steam or any of the App stores, is going to be around or able to put steaks in the freezer 10 years from now? Many are just out to make a quick buck like dodgy influencers or chancers like McAfee talking up crypto-coins to families who can't afford it. This is just fake news cesspit marketing, its not sustainable....


                    Originally posted by MostHost LA View Post
                    ...yes, your APK is immediately put onto another billion mirrors that offer it free (not sure how many root their phone voiding warranty in America though
                    What's rooting go to do with side-loading though?

                    Originally posted by MostHost LA View Post
                    in Europe you definitely have less of a market to begin with, not going to argue against that one
                    Less of a market to scam people or less of a market overall and if so, why do you think that?
                    Last edited by UnrealEnterprise; 11-03-2020, 10:20 AM.
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    What are the BEST Unreal Tutorials / Docs? There are none tbh... Here's why
                    Instead its better to just take projects apart (see the free 'creators' listed here)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by UnrealEnterprise View Post

                      Sure, make a sht game / app, and spend money instead marketing it on Facebook to fools.
                      People have been getting scammed like this since the beginning of time with no easy fixes.
                      But a scam is just a scam, its not a sustainable biz model to most devs here so why sell it...
                      the people buying packs for game of war or mobile command at $99 a pop would likely crucify you if they read this.
                      its neither a scam nor "not sustainable", just because we think they are insane (and they probably are).

                      Originally posted by UnrealEnterprise View Post
                      What's rooting go to do with side-loading though?
                      most phones require rooting to install the apps from which you download the pirated apps. Particularly Apple products, where you need jailbreak just to make the phone usable since Apple doesn't give a **** about ease of use and functionality.

                      Originally posted by UnrealEnterprise View Post
                      Less of a market to scam people or less of a market overall and if so, why do you think that?]
                      Overall, for 2 reasons. They pirate more / purchase less. They actually own their phones outright and root them far more often.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by UnrealEnterprise View Post
                        BTW:
                        Steam isn't a friend of indies, its their enemy! But most devs still prefer to let it 'use them' instead of them 'using it'.
                        Same goes for all the app stores!!! There's no money to be made on there. This is the biggest open secret on here...
                        Steam is not an Indie enemy... LOL, they keep in constant communication with you, and give you a lot of help in the process of uploading, selling, marketing, and they have a lot of documantation, they are open to talk about piracy and give you good advice, AND... they do promote your "indie" games... so even if you don't have a marketing budget they do help, at least "in my experience" and they also treat you really well, very nice experience; I have never waited more than 10 hours for a technical reply from them... but as you know, ultimately they care about sales, and if you release a trashy, boring, unfinished game, it is going to end up at the bottom of the other trash games and there is nothing you could do about it, and maybe them accepting so many Indie games, cause this not true idea that your Indie game sinks in their site, because they hate you LOL.... but If you don't have a good game, marketing budget, and not any antipiracy... of course it might, why buying it If I can also find it on +200 piracy sites per free.

                        "in my experience" not everybody is so aware about how strong piracy is and why their games have weird sale patterns.

                        Piracy is a hudge problem for PC games, an easy problem to fix, if developers like us, instead of fighting about nonsense, work toguether to find smart solutions; and If you still don't belive me, belive them: https://youtu.be/_I9l261A_fY?t=1794

                        But I can tell you this, piracy for PC games again... "in my experience" is overwhelming, massive and "ultra" fast.... not any million dollar marketing budget is going to be as effective, as long as piracy is, as easy as it is now; or do you really belive a game like "Call of Dutty" a massive AAA tittle, has such low marketing budgets or skill, that even they had issues with piracy, never being able to match PC sales with other platforms (as you watched on the video I shared) and this is not a "hated" indie game, but I can't say enough about this, I haven't being discriminated at all, totally the opposite and very friendly.

                        Free games is not a solution, there is plenty of free games on Steam, nothing new... and people engage less to them in the long run, because people feel less commited to a free game than a $16.99 game, unless.... your free game is really excepcional or you do have a hudge marketing budget, but also microtransactions can lead to scams... so, it is not free to other maybe more complex issues, not a solution.

                        Youtubers still have an impact, but they can esily charge between 10K to 50K, even up to 100K if they are at the top, and they are not as strong as 10 years ago, that's why every day less and less studios are paying them, wich is why more and more youtubers are shifting to talkshow videos, about their life experiences taking the buss, or laughing about other videos, than playing LOL... It is true, and some developer that I have read, have even experienced the worst escenarios, people buying less, or not being able to compensate the high rate of a youtuber with sales, not sure why, don't ask me, that's what they say, not my experience, I still don't know Piewhatever...

                        Constantly updating your game, does work, not a solution, piracy sites also upload updates, not all of them but they do. I guess they do it if your game is popular on their sites, once I promoted a new updated, and just minutes to 1 hour after, it was already on piracy sites and I have seen this behavior before with AAA titles, and you decide to make this amazing campaign, discounts, big promo and people get your promo and this leads them to search your game on a piracy site first, no antipiracy and you game is available in 500 sites... LOL.

                        Something not told before, but your game could easily be hacked wrong, causing weird bugs, like gamemodes not working, weapons not triggering, low FPS, or bugs that are not in the real game, and many youtubers use this scamy versions for their 1 time gameplays (even popular youtubers), wich can also cause people to think the real game is filled with bugs, while those are never there or where fixed 20 versions ago... and it does have a bad impact on your games image.

                        So, please help and share ideas, BP pics, anything you think that might help against piracy; because people using other engines belive that implementing anti piracy strategies, improves sales 20% to 30%.
                        Last edited by DraxFX; 11-07-2020, 06:41 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by DraxFX View Post

                          Steam is not an Indie enemy... LOL, they keep in constant communication with you, and give you a lot of help in the process of uploading, selling, marketing, and they have a lot of documantation, they are open to talk about piracy and give you good advice, AND... they do promote your "indie" games... so even if you don't have a marketing budget they do help, at least "in my experience" and they also treat you really well, very nice experience; I have never waited more than 10 hours for a technical reply from them... but as you know, ultimately they care about sales, and if you release a trashy, boring, unfinished game, it is going to end up at the bottom of the other trash games and there is nothing you could do about it, and maybe them accepting so many Indie games, cause this not true idea that your Indie game sinks in their site, because they hate you LOL.... but If you don't have a good game, marketing budget, and not any antipiracy... of course it might, why buying it If I can also find it on +200 piracy sites per free.

                          "in my experience" not everybody is so aware about how strong piracy is and why their games have weird sale patterns.

                          Piracy is a hudge problem for PC games, an easy problem to fix, if developers like us, instead of fighting about nonsense, work toguether to find smart solutions; and If you still don't belive me, belive them: https://youtu.be/_I9l261A_fY?t=1794

                          But I can tell you this, piracy for PC games again... "in my experience" is overwhelming, massive and "ultra" fast.... not any million dollar marketing budget is going to be as effective, as long as piracy is, as easy as it is now; or do you really belive a game like "Call of Dutty" a massive AAA tittle, has such low marketing budgets or skill, that even they had issues with piracy, never being able to match PC sales with other platforms (as you watched on the video I shared) and this is not a "hated" indie game, but I can't say enough about this, I haven't being discriminated at all, totally the opposite and very friendly.

                          Free games is not a solution, there is plenty of free games on Steam, nothing new... and people engage less to them in the long run, because people feel less commited to a free game than a $16.99 game, unless.... your free game is really excepcional or you do have a hudge marketing budget, but also microtransactions can lead to scams... so, it is not free to other maybe more complex issues, not a solution.

                          Youtubers still have an impact, but they can esily charge between 10K to 50K, even up to 100K if they are at the top, and they are not as strong as 10 years ago, that's why every day less and less studios are paying them, wich is why more and more youtubers are shifting to talkshow videos, about their life experiences taking the buss, or laughing about other videos, than playing LOL... It is true, and some developer that I have read, have even experienced the worst escenarios, people buying less, or not being able to compensate the high rate of a youtuber with sales, not sure why, don't ask me, that's what they say, not my experience, I still don't know Piewhatever...

                          Constantly updating your game, does work, not a solution, piracy sites also upload updates, not all of them but they do. I guess they do it if your game is popular on their sites, once I promoted a new updated, and just minutes to 1 hour after, it was already on piracy sites and I have seen this behavior before with AAA titles, and you decide to make this amazing campaign, discounts, big promo and people get your promo and this leads them to search your game on a piracy site first, no antipiracy and you game is available in 500 sites... LOL.

                          Something not told before, but your game could easily be hacked wrong, causing weird bugs, like gamemodes not working, weapons not triggering, low FPS, or bugs that are not in the real game, and many youtubers use this scamy versions for their 1 time gameplays (even popular youtubers), wich can also cause people to think the real game is filled with bugs, while those are never there or where fixed 20 versions ago... and it does have a bad impact on your games image.

                          So, please help and share ideas, BP pics, anything you think that might help against piracy; because people using other engines belive that implementing anti piracy strategies, improves sales 20% to 30%.
                          I'd say, keep developing the game, add content, tweak things. That helps. Without exception, all the pirated copies of my game I see people playing online and V1.0. I see them having problems, and I think 'well, serves you right'...

                          Captain Hook is very good at getting the game out there is 10 seconds flat, but very bad at keeping it up to date.
                          Check out Zof ( puzzle game ) on Steam:

                          https://store.steampowered.com/app/1414480/Zof/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            There is no good solution to preventing piracy of single player games. No matter what you do you are going to lose. Even the sophisticated DRM solutions can't stop the pirates and it only aggravates and punish the legit customers.

                            It should be as easy and cheap as possible to be a legit customer so it can "compete" with the ease of being a pirate. If your anti-pirate solution begins targeting your legit customers then you are worse off than letting some pirates through.

                            The only way you can ensure that everyone pay for your game is if you release it as a service like with Google Stadia but the popularity of that is not that great so I really don't know how profitable that is compared to the regular PC market.
                            Last edited by GarnerP57; 11-07-2020, 08:54 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ClockworkOcean View Post
                              Captain Hook is very good at getting the game out there is 10 seconds flat, but very bad at keeping it up to date.
                              Depends on popularity and need.
                              Hacking a game is as much a job as making one mind you. Completely different set of skills, but skills people don't really get paid for nonetheless (much like making games now! XP)

                              When a popular game comes out, there is a definite rush to crack it and put it up. However even with those folks that do it -lets say- professionally (if playing fortnite on YouTube can be a profession don't anyone dare argue hacking games isn't a profession) there is a diminishing return on investment over keeping up with updates.

                              Getting the crack out 1st to 5th makes sense. Releasing every update when you have a list of another 20 games that were just released to still crack does not.

                              Are these people detrimental to us developers?
                              Personally I don't think so. I encourage them to keep tearing DMRs that are always online on single player (Rockstar too! Forgot about thay) apart...
                              Do they cost us sales? I doubt it. In fact, I think skyrim is skyrim ONLY because of the hackers that made it free.
                              (let's not blame them for the bugs, thats totally Bethesda ;P)

                              Ps: what's your game? Why doesn't the community spotlight feature it more often given you are always the in the top 10 answer hub / you do Epic's job ?
                              Last edited by MostHost LA; 11-07-2020, 07:01 PM.

                              Comment

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