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How can we price our unreal engine arch viz projects ???

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  • replied
    Originally posted by heartlessphil View Post
    I think the ability of walking through a building in VR is going to be useful not only for marketing but also during the design process (maybe even just with clay models). I listened to a couple VR podcast about that and that's what they were telling. The interactivity is a gimmick imo. It will get old FAST!

    I would focus my energy on composition/mood/story instead of programming complex blueprints just to be able to open a door. No one needs to experience how a door opens, close a light, open a tv, etc. but everyone will want to experience the scale of a building, and how you feel in a given space, etc. That's the true meaning of virtual reality imo.
    I agree with your points. Having this ability in a large Architecture firm would be great, even in smaller firms. It might be tougher to sell this as an outside consultant because of the pipeline, it would be great if projects were updated like BIM so that when changes are made to the project they show up in the VR project. I can dream.

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  • replied
    Totally agreed. The future may seem not so bright, but in the end, although we all now have roughly the same tool set, still it's the artist's skill that will define his/her price and position in this era.

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  • replied
    As long as Art+Quality =Price then we will not face any problems finding those clients and am really happy to find more of those who don't care about the quality of work and only care about the money because they make artist work more unique and more required

    From What i see here in Dubai City Scape with the renderings and the videos , the 3rd party clients that goes to our clients are always attracted by the quality of everything , those who go for cheap presentation are always considered to be a very cheap sellers and always get a very low attention , and the type of service always determine the type of client ,

    yes maybe everybody have the tools and there are hundreds of tutorials that help anybody to finish a simple RT project in a short time but still the taste of art is exceptional that cannot be acquired so easy and ur quality of work will determine ur continuity in the market and also will be ur tool for free advertisement , Alex roman did the Third , The seventh ... as an art and as a challenge and look where did it take him now although koola UE work that made him so famous in the UE community and they will be rewarded for their taste and their quality of work .

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  • replied
    I think the ability of walking through a building in VR is going to be useful not only for marketing but also during the design process (maybe even just with clay models). I listened to a couple VR podcast about that and that's what they were telling. The interactivity is a gimmick imo. It will get old FAST!

    I would focus my energy on composition/mood/story instead of programming complex blueprints just to be able to open a door. No one needs to experience how a door opens, close a light, open a tv, etc. but everyone will want to experience the scale of a building, and how you feel in a given space, etc. That's the true meaning of virtual reality imo.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by heartlessphil View Post
    Yes but there will be a difference between a quickly made cheap render and something more elaborate, almost like a piece of art. Look at what MIR does for example! Doing a video is one thing but doing a real good video require much more expertise. You need to understand composition, story-telling, video editing, sound editing etc... But there is a market for everything heh!
    You also need to get "those" clients. And, to get those clients you need to show you can handle the job, which means a great portfolio and a staff to do the work. That will take time. Honestly I don't see UE4's quality level high enough for major presentations like Dbox and others do at the moment. That said as a design tool I think it's got a good chance. Maybe down the road when things like reflections (mirrors, glass) no lightmaps, better lighting solutions etc. it can compete but right now there are too many problems.

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  • replied
    Thank God my client didn't ask for that kind of stills and videos!

    For me, the ability to walk through the house/building and interactivity with the environment are the major selling point for arch viz, well at least that what I was selling to my clients, good lighting and PBR materials are just bonus for them

    But in 2 years time (or maybe less) I think more clients will ask for full interactivity and Oculus Rift ready arch viz, and yes, possibly at the price of still renders or even less (-_-")

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  • replied
    Originally posted by tupikp View Post
    Unlimited library of 3d models and PBR materials also available at low prices or free. So, even a person with average skills can create real time visualization with the right tools in his hands. Maybe this is not entirely true, but I've seen this trend happening everywhere for the past 10 years in digital computing (programming and art) area.
    Yes but there will be a difference between a quickly made cheap render and something more elaborate, almost like a piece of art. Look at what MIR does for example! Doing a video is one thing but doing a real good video require much more expertise. You need to understand composition, story-telling, video editing, sound editing etc... But there is a market for everything heh!

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  • replied
    ^ Yep, and this will be the majority of the work out there. There will be high end projects that will want more but those are going to be limited. I see it already in job postings, clients want 3D walk throughs for the price of a still render.

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  • replied
    I really believe real time visualization fee/price is going to be really low, almost free. All the tools required are already available for mass audience at affordable price and some are even free.

    Unlimited library of 3d models and PBR materials also available at low prices or free. So, even a person with average skills can create real time visualization with the right tools in his hands. Maybe this is not entirely true, but I've seen this trend happening everywhere for the past 10 years in digital computing (programming and art) area.

    From business point of view, this situation is great though. For instance, I can hire fresh graduate programmer for low price to help me in some projects. It really doesn't matter if he doesn't have the skills yet, since copy-paste programming is becoming a common practice nowadays.

    This "copy-paste" situation is also happening in real time visualization now. I did one project for my neighbor (a real estate developer). I created the basic structures and custom objects in SketchUp Pro, grab UE4 (previously tried Unity5 but didn't really like it), grab some materials from Substance Share website, grab all the props from 3d websites, put all the assets together, and voila, real time arch vis in 2 weeks with minimum interaction (walking and automatic door). I charged him 1500 USD, which is very low compared to what he had to pay for a 4 minutes presentation non-interactive video. My neighbor was happy because according to him the visuals are great, even better than the presentation video. The best thing is I didn't do anything special, didn't tweak baselightmass.ini, just adjust the lighting, using PBR materials, adding blueprint to doors, and apparently that is good enough for my client.
    Last edited by tupikp; 11-21-2015, 12:15 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by serriffe View Post
    I'm actually not counting on the value of - The model of x $$ per second, as some charge for 3D animations - as you have said. I think that equation will not work and I do agree. A real time demo of what an Architect has designed is a whole new ballgame. It opens a lot more possibilities. It's valuable for marketing, context data and probably environmental design just to name a few.

    I think it really comes down to the quality of work that we produce or the Arch Vis firms out there and how high the demand is. ( demand pretty much dictates value ) If it becomes successful, I think it will be a totally new field of work in my opinion and I think it's great.
    It won't be any different though to how still images are priced. You have the same mind set from the clients, Architects and Developers mainly. They are going to want the best price best quality they can get. The value you offer is in the service you provide, is your work better, does the aesthetic match the clients, are you local, can you get it done in their time frame on budget etc. Demand isn't going to play into what you can charge because there will be no scarcity of people able to fill the demand. Initially there might be a window of opportunity where there is more work than people able to do it but that won't last. Real time viz is here and it will become common place in Architects offices as technology advances.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by RI3DVIZ View Post
    You're selling time for money in this business, you need to figure out what your time is worth and charge accordingly - nobody can do that for you. The model of x $$ per second, as some charge for 3D animations, isn't going to work.
    I'm actually not counting on the value of - The model of x $$ per second, as some charge for 3D animations - as you have said. I think that equation will not work and I do agree. A real time demo of what an Architect has designed is a whole new ballgame. It opens a lot more possibilities. It's valuable for marketing, context data and probably environmental design just to name a few.

    I think it really comes down to the quality of work that we produce or the Arch Vis firms out there and how high the demand is. ( demand pretty much dictates value ) If it becomes successful, I think it will be a totally new field of work in my opinion and I think it's great.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by serriffe View Post
    I think any of us can put a price point that is reasonable for our clients but the problem is doing a RT Demo is so new that there is no solid business model for it. I think we need the help of the big Arch Vis firms to legitimize the value of a RT Demo. I'm just being cautiously optimistic about it and it's only an opinion.

    I'm glad that this is been brought out - it's a serious concern of mine and my employees.
    You're selling time for money in this business, you need to figure out what your time is worth and charge accordingly - nobody can do that for you. The model of x $$ per second, as some charge for 3D animations, isn't going to work.
    Last edited by RI3DVIZ; 11-20-2015, 08:51 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by RI3DVIZ View Post
    I don't follow you. Why would it be up to them if RT is profitable? It's up to you and if it's worth what you can get from a client.

    I think any of us can put a price point that is reasonable for our clients but the problem is doing a RT Demo is so new that there is no solid business model for it. I think we need the help of the big Arch Vis firms to legitimize the value of a RT Demo. I'm just being cautiously optimistic about it and it's only an opinion.

    I'm glad that this is been brought out - it's a serious concern of mine and my employees.

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  • replied
    $1000 max?
    That's very cheap. is this for a small apartment? it's still very cheap

    In any case, what I would do is pretend to be a client for one or more design companies. Study what they charge and how they break down the cost and just follow their pricing models.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by serriffe View Post
    I believed that the new RT Arch Vis projects will mirror the business model for the current or traditional Arch Vis firms ( V-ray ) out there or maybe exceed it. I think the people who will set the true value for the RT solution projects are up to the top Arch Vis firms out there ( D-box, Neorama, Factory 15, Steel Blue and so on ) it's up to those guys whether they think doing a RT projects is profitable or not. I think things will even get more interesting when the consumer Oculus Rift version enters the market and that should complicate your RT price point even more. I believed that this is a very good problem to have in general.
    I don't follow you. Why would it be up to them if RT is profitable? It's up to you and if it's worth what you can get from a client.

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