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Lets make Lightmass EPIC (and understandable)

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  • replied
    Daniel:

    Is it possible to give us something like this? In Modo for example if there is noise I know to increase the samples in the lights. So, for us non technical people can we get an over view like.
    Blotchy try x, x and x
    Light leaks, increase lightmap rez and x
    Etc.

    All this tech talk makes my head spin. Hahahaha

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  • replied
    Most people serious about arch-viz probably have access to a decent render-farm. Even if it takes 10 hours for the final bake, this isn't a big problem as long as it's predictable in the end!

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  • replied
    I use this values in editor parameters :

    Static Lighting Level Scale : 0.1
    Num Indirect Lighting Bounces : 100
    Indirect Lighting Quality : 10
    Indirect Lighting Smoothness : 1

    And in the BaseLightmass.ini :

    NumHemisphereSamplesScale=100
    Thanks for sharing your results koola.

    NumHemisphereSamples is how many rays will be traced at the base level of refinement for the final gather, which means direct shadowing for a skylight. IndirectLightingQuality already scales NumHemisphereSamples. So those settings are equivalent to massive brute force, something like 16k rays before adaptive sampling even kicks in, which explains the render times.

    Personally I won't spend over 20 minutes building lighting for such a small scene but I know you guys are going for maximum quality.

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  • replied
    Regarding each single parameter on the .ini file, well if DanieW is willing to share some knowledge would be great.
    See post #8.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by sandermer View Post
    Im wondering about this as well, especially cranking up the Indirect Lighting Quality adds sooo much render time.
    And I actually found that a value of 2-3 gives me a much cleaner result than anything over that.
    I've done scenes with .9, 100, 10, .66 and it took round 7 hours on 2 machines. Not too bad! Under 10 hours is ok-ish but over 10 hours it's a bit long. Koola might use a bigger renderfarm who knows!

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  • replied
    Which is also why other renderers brought more advanced secondary solvers (for example Vray's LightCache, while also not perfect esp. when it comes to lightleaks, it's far more evolved than photon mapping
    I did a quick search, their LightCache is what's known as Importance tracing. It's not a replacement for photon mapping, in fact you can combine the two nicely. Importance tracing = trace from the eye, photon mapping = trace from the light. Many lighting situations, like bright sun hitting a small spot and illuminating the whole room, require a mix of both. In the case of Lightmass though we are building lightmaps, there is no eye position, so it's not applicable.

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  • replied
    I experienced certain unpredictability of result depending on position of Lightmass Volume. The position seems obvious, it should encompass the scene. But how much ? By atleast 1 or 10perc. ?
    Generally you want all surfaces that need good quality to be contained, plus 10m more or less. The different results from changing it slightly are probably because it redistributed the photons, and there was enough noise from photons in the first place. In other words, there was significant noise present and changing any parameter slightly will shift the noise. The volume is just one of those parameters.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by heartlessphil View Post
    Static Lighting Level Scale : 0.1
    Num Indirect Lighting Bounces : 100
    Indirect Lighting Quality : 10
    Indirect Lighting Smoothness : 1

    And in the BaseLightmass.ini :

    NumHemisphereSamplesScale=100


    Is this even possible to use those in a real scene and without a huge renderfarm tho? :-S
    Im wondering about this as well, especially cranking up the Indirect Lighting Quality adds sooo much render time.
    And I actually found that a value of 2-3 gives me a much cleaner result than anything over that.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Static Lighting Level Scale : 0.1
    Num Indirect Lighting Bounces : 100
    Indirect Lighting Quality : 10
    Indirect Lighting Smoothness : 1

    And in the BaseLightmass.ini :

    NumHemisphereSamplesScale=100


    Is this even possible to use those in a real scene and without a huge renderfarm tho? :-S

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by koola View Post
    I did some quick tests too.

    (to speed up the testing I use lowres lightmaps)



    I use this values in editor parameters :

    Static Lighting Level Scale : 0.1
    Num Indirect Lighting Bounces : 100
    Indirect Lighting Quality : 10
    Indirect Lighting Smoothness : 1

    And in the BaseLightmass.ini :

    NumHemisphereSamplesScale=100

    In my tests, this is the only parameter you need to tweak in baselightmass.ini to remove the skylight "splotches".





    And stop using my old BaseLightmass.ini, like I already say, it's roughtly just random values^^.
    You don't need to boost all the values if you just light your scene with a skylight.

    With the spot/reflector technique (that simulate a skylight with more than 2 bounces) you need more tweaks (and more render time) to have a good quality.
    @Koola - What a perfect timing, Now we got all the fuel we required to boost Lightmass learning. If possible kindly have a look on the level with spot lights for the light leak errors.

    I have to confess that I am already using NumHemisphereSamplesScale=64 Value on all of my latest projects without touching other values much (I found this during my experiments that this value is greatly improving the results). But again all I know was this value is improving my results but how? and why? are the questions which still need answers. Light leaks are still unresolved on .1 Value in Static Lighting Level Scale.

    @DanielW - I am becoming desperate to know your findings. My hopes are super high. Kindly provide explanation behind all this.

    Looking Forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Thanks for the info Koola. I would like to hear Daniel chime in on this before we all take it as the gospel.

    "And in the BaseLightmass.ini :

    NumHemisphereSamplesScale=100

    In my tests, this is the only parameter you need to tweak in baselightmass.ini to remove the skylight "splotches".

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Great finding Koola!

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  • replied
    I did some quick tests too.

    (to speed up the testing I use lowres lightmaps)



    I use this values in editor parameters :

    Static Lighting Level Scale : 0.1
    Num Indirect Lighting Bounces : 100
    Indirect Lighting Quality : 10
    Indirect Lighting Smoothness : 1

    And in the BaseLightmass.ini :

    NumHemisphereSamplesScale=100

    In my tests, this is the only parameter you need to tweak in baselightmass.ini to remove the skylight "splotches".





    And stop using my old BaseLightmass.ini, like I already say, it's roughtly just random values^^.
    You don't need to boost all the values if you just light your scene with a skylight.

    With the spot/reflector technique (that simulate a skylight with more than 2 bounces) you need more tweaks (and more render time) to have a good quality.
    Last edited by koola; 10-25-2015, 08:48 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by palak123
    I think you have missed the whole reason behind this thread. Its not targeting for specific values, but to understand Lightmass as whole.

    As koola himself admitted that he has no idea of the setting he changed in baselightmass.ini, so using his values without knowing what they are doing exactly is of no use.

    rafaries tutorial on evermotion is not even scratching the surface of lightmass, leave the usefulness of it. One of my friend had bought a scene(Rivera house) from his site and luckily I got a chance to have a look over it and I found that there was no baselightmass.ini provided with the scene but, I am yet to rebuild his scene and I extremely doubt that the scene quality will be the same as provided.
    I can't believe that koola is the only one in the entire comunity which spent 1-2 days messing around with the baselightmass.ini settings...and as seen even if he didn't understand everything the results speak for themself.

    Regarding each single parameter on the .ini file, well if DanieW is willing to share some knowledge would be great.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    My experiments:
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    Scene: https://mega.nz/#!rtQ3XLzT!7BR5v95YW...uFEJHDxljR_jqM

    File BaseLightmass.ini: https://mega.nz/#!n5xGSLiT!ZmOMwf69N...Krv6KTkfp9WfJU

    change settings:

    DirectPhotonDensity=100000000

    And parameters koola:

    [DevOptions.StaticLightingProductionQuality]
    NumShadowRaysScale=32
    NumPenumbraShadowRaysScale=64
    ApproximateHighResTexelsPerMaxTransitionDistanceScale=9
    MinDistanceFieldUpsampleFactor=7
    NumHemisphereSamplesScale=64
    NumImportanceSearchPhotonsScale=6
    NumDirectPhotonsScale=32
    ; Decrease direct photon search distance so that we will have more accurate shadow transitions. This requires a higher density of direct photons.
    DirectPhotonSearchDistanceScale=.5
    NumIndirectPhotonPathsScale=32
    ; Need a lot of indirect photons since we have increased the number of first bounce photons to use for final gathering with NumImportanceSearchPhotonsScale
    NumIndirectPhotonsScale=64
    NumIndirectIrradiancePhotonsScale=32
    ; Decreasing the record radius results in more records, which increases quality
    RecordRadiusScaleScale=.45
    InterpolationMaxAngleScale=.75
    IrradianceCacheSmoothFactor=.75
    NumAdaptiveRefinementLevels=3
    AdaptiveBrightnessThresholdScale=.25
    AdaptiveFirstBouncePhotonConeAngleScale=2.5

    Render time: 4 hours
    On machine with i7 950 3.07 GHz RAM 24 Gb

    I'm afraid to imagine what will happen to the big apartment!!!

    I do not understand these parameters. Just do not have time to study the photon mapping. He began to study and my head was going to explode soon. It is a science. Examples would be the settings for daytime sunlight, cloudy, evening. Why not make the presets. How well do creative work, not to study the photon map. I really liked the graphics in Unreal Engin 4, but once started architectural visualization, faced with the mysterious file BaseLightmass.ini
    Attached Files

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