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Is Lumion 7 surpassing UE4 for Arch Vis?

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  • #16
    I work in a firm that luckily has its own graphic division. Which is the portion i work under.

    Some of the issues we have encountered and the decisions what most firms i know have gone to Lumion is time and money. Its becoming extreme difficult to find students or interns who know 3D rendering as good as they did say 3 years ago. Out of all the portfolios we see per day, id say 5% know sufficient Vray, Photoshop, indesign, etc.. Alot of this loss in graphic representation can be faulted to Revit, and most schools teaching it as a design software.

    One of my friends who works at the big "G" firm, said they where discussing switching to lumion because it easier to use, provides enough "realism", and some VR capabilities right out of the box without any need for special trainining. Mostly because alot of firms wont hire say a specialist in UE4 for graphics and renderings, they will usually pick the best in house that can do it.

    Also you usually dont have around 4 weeks, 4 months, to do a rendering for client. Often well in my particular firm, our deadlines are about 3-8 days complete renders. 1 week if we have multiple views, and about 1.5 weeks for After Effects animations.

    I agree UE4 has amazing graphics, but it steep learning curve ultimately will be it downfall in architecture. Unless they smooth out a process and increase pipeline workflow.
    Ricardo G. Chavez
    Designer




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    • #17
      Originally posted by archit3k View Post
      I agree UE4 has amazing graphics, but it steep learning curve ultimately will be it downfall in architecture. Unless they smooth out a process and increase pipeline workflow.
      Agreed. Until UE4 can replace the traditional pipeline, the downsides still outweigh the benefits. Lightmass speed and memory requirements (have you tried using 4096 resolution lightmaps? 96gb ram is evidently not enough) and lack of additional pass outputs (lighting direct & indirect, material id's, reflection & refraction) are among the downsides.
      George Rolfe.
      Technical Coordinator at Orbit Solutions Pty Ltd.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by archit3k View Post
        I work in a firm that luckily has its own graphic division. Which is the portion i work under.

        Some of the issues we have encountered and the decisions what most firms i know have gone to Lumion is time and money. Its becoming extreme difficult to find students or interns who know 3D rendering as good as they did say 3 years ago. Out of all the portfolios we see per day, id say 5% know sufficient Vray, Photoshop, indesign, etc.. Alot of this loss in graphic representation can be faulted to Revit, and most schools teaching it as a design software.

        One of my friends who works at the big "G" firm, said they where discussing switching to lumion because it easier to use, provides enough "realism", and some VR capabilities right out of the box without any need for special trainining. Mostly because alot of firms wont hire say a specialist in UE4 for graphics and renderings, they will usually pick the best in house that can do it.

        Also you usually dont have around 4 weeks, 4 months, to do a rendering for client. Often well in my particular firm, our deadlines are about 3-8 days complete renders. 1 week if we have multiple views, and about 1.5 weeks for After Effects animations.

        I agree UE4 has amazing graphics, but it steep learning curve ultimately will be it downfall in architecture. Unless they smooth out a process and increase pipeline workflow.
        That is something that Epic is looking to improve--one thing is getting your scenes to UE4 quickly so they are working on a plugin for 3ds Max that can send over a full scene and convert your materials. You can sign up for the beta here: http://unrealengine.com/beta

        The other biggest challenge is the lighting, making lightmap UV's is a big hassle for archviz and you still have to build the lighting so you likely have to get it to render overnight though when it's done you can do animations very quick and that's a better option than waiting days for a single shot to render with Vray.
        You may want to look into Nvidia VXGI which is a fully dynamic GI system, it's not going to give as good of results as baked lighting, but it's very quick and can give acceptable results for some cases. It requires building the source code to do that however: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ks-Integration

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        • #19
          Originally posted by darthviper107 View Post
          That is something that Epic is looking to improve--one thing is getting your scenes to UE4 quickly so they are working on a plugin for 3ds Max that can send over a full scene and convert your materials. You can sign up for the beta here: http://unrealengine.com/beta

          The other biggest challenge is the lighting, making lightmap UV's is a big hassle for archviz and you still have to build the lighting so you likely have to get it to render overnight though when it's done you can do animations very quick and that's a better option than waiting days for a single shot to render with Vray.
          You may want to look into Nvidia VXGI which is a fully dynamic GI system, it's not going to give as good of results as baked lighting, but it's very quick and can give acceptable results for some cases. It requires building the source code to do that however: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ks-Integration
          ChaosGroup, the developers of VRay are also working on a solution for lightmapping.
          George Rolfe.
          Technical Coordinator at Orbit Solutions Pty Ltd.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ExpiredYogurt View Post
            If Lumion is improving this fast, I feel by Lumion 8, architecture firms will no longer need UE4.
            You overestimate the need for UE4. I highly doubt many arch firms use UE4 at all.

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            • #21
              I heard about epic games datasmith last night. It's in beta. It's a 3ds max plugin that can :

              -Entire scene converted with high-fidelity
              -Most 3ds Max materials and lights (V-Ray, Mental Ray and Corona)
              -Auto-UV generation for lightmaps

              -Auto-conversion of:
              Unsupported image formats
              -Bump maps into Normal maps
              -Image resolution converted to powers-of-two
              -Units and scale conversion
              -Cameras
              -Area-lights mimicked
              -Preservation of layers from 3ds Max Proxies, Instances, Scene and Object XREFs
              -Conversion of ItooSoft RailClone and ForestPack Pro entities into UE4 concepts

              Sounds very powerful for architecture, no? No idea if it's actually good but you can apply to test it.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by duke22 View Post
                ChaosGroup, the developers of VRay are also working on a solution for lightmapping.
                Yeah, but it seems like that particular feature isn't much of a priority for them

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Errvald View Post
                  You overestimate the need for UE4. I highly doubt many arch firms use UE4 at all.
                  Really? Did you see the CGarchitecture survey?

                  Having just visited 20 Architectural firms (10 of the world's largest), I can tell you that Unreal is alive and well inside those operations. Datasmith will further drive architects to Unreal as it removes so much wasted time getting data into the engine.
                  Sr. Product Manager
                  Epic Games

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                  • #24
                    I repeat it all the time, the killer feature will be progressive lightmap baking with path tracing/ray tracing to have offline quality images in playable games/vr!!!!
                    Octane unity is already in beta, they have a subforum dedicated to it @ otoy. 2-3 days ago they said they're still working on the ue4 plugin. Can't come fast enough.

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                    • #25
                      Seems that Epic is investing a lot of their resources to productivity. There's millions of things going on right now with graphics tech.
                      I have no Idea who would spend $4k on Lumion when you could do everything in UE4. I've seen architectural ipad apps with ue4 that look better than the pc version of lumion.
                      Corona looks good with 3ds max.
                      The only thing I've seen that really impresses me is renderman, and usd from pixar studios. A ton of high end CGI is coming from this tech.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmH4KYcmHOo

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by heartlessphil View Post
                        The killer feature will be progressive lightmap baking.
                        Yeah, what unity does with progressive lightmaps would be pretty useful. Being able to bake only the changes made from the previous bake would be great aswell.

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