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Is there a documentation/tutorial for the 4.16 Built-in-cloth system?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Exelcior View Post
    I haven't seen anything causing the editor to freeze when editing clothing so that's likely still happening, if you can reliably reproduce that I'd love to know the cause.

    We'll definitely have the ability to update the collisions for sure. That will be added to the clothing tools before the come out of experimental status.

    As for latch groups, that will likely not be implemented initially. We unfortunately lost that feature when we moved away from using APEX render data as it's not something that is exported into the resulting .apx/.apb. It was precalculated on export so we had no way to reproduce the data. Once we have our own tools however it is something we can look to bring back. It's definitely on my list to investigate at some point in the future but I can't say exactly when we'll get that feature in our tools.

    Ok, backstops... I've put together an image very quickly to attempt an explanation:

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]139684[/ATTACH]

    So, the black line is the skinned position of the mesh as if clothing was disabled. The dark green line is where the simulated clothing is in this example. The bright green circles are the verts (the same vert on the sim and skinned mesh). The blue line is the vertex normal. You can see the black max distance sphere. This is centered on the skinned vertex position, the simulated vert cannot leave this sphere. The backstop radius is the size of the red sphere, and the backstop offset is the size of the magenta line. The vertex can never enter the red sphere. This lets you add cheap collision to clothing by only allowing the vert to go infront of the skinned position (if the offset is zero) and not drop behind. You could use this to keep a pair of jeans from going backwards through a leg for example.

    Hopefully that explains it a little - let me know if it's still confusing, it is a weird parameter!

    Benn.
    Thanks a ton for that, it is crystal clear now.

    As for the bug, it is really simple... add clothing to a segment, then either delete it from the apex array or the right-click menu on the segment. The editor just freezes, no breakpoint no nothing.

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      #17
      What Should i do If the cloth is not colliding with the Physics asset at all?

      Comment


        #18
        Hello, I'm new to cloths, been trying .apx only a few days ago, how does the collision work for this? How do I create it? Is it to be created directly inside the Engine or through an external software like it was for .apx cloths? Anyway I'm totally loving this feature!

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          #19
          The collision is handled by the Physics asset in the engine. The "tubes" that kinda represents the bones is the collision. BUT, you everytime you modify size/Rotation/location etc of these tubes, you gotha create the cloth piece over again since collision detection for the cloth is made with the pshysicsasset how it was when you created it...

          Apparently this is going to change some time in the future, but as of for now, you gotha create a new cloththingy everytime you make changes to the psysicsAsset.

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            #20
            Ah thank you, now I understand why I was changing stuff but it was still the same everytime, I think I'll have to create one manually, as the one ue automatically created won't let me change the capsules into cubes..

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              #21
              Tried this tool. Some things seemed to me not convenient. When I work with a brush, do not very well see what I'm doing:

              1) Typically, mesh clothing has a lot of polygons and vertices, so the squares are also very many and they visually merge with each other. The color of the mesh changes as soon as I click on the brush and begin to paint. Squares - very uncomfortable. Is it possible to make the display of values how is this done in 3DS Max - through color or with lines of different lengths? The lines (maximum distance, etc.) I can see in the viewport, but not while working with the brush.
              2) It is awkward that the mesh is translucent. I usually make clothes a separate mesh, so in the editor I see only this part. When it is translucent, I can see the back side, the back squares merge with the front squares. It's a sort of mixture that is hard to understand what I'm doing now with a brush. Especially uncomfortable if I work with a skirt or dress.

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                #22
                Either i am doing something wrong or there is some problem. When i press enable paint tools, the section changes spatial rotation from upright to laying on the ground. When i try to paint it with brush - nothing changes. No matter what strength i set it continues being white. After numerous tries and reading this thread i blindly tried "gradient" method a few times (i don't really understand how it works, previously only painted with brush in maya) and it started working very crudely in physical body window while simulating, but it still doesn't work in game.

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                  #23
                  Same as Antvg - mesh drops to the floor and no matter what I do it won't start simulating -- experimental definitely I hope to see this work soon, the PhysX cloth modifier in max is giving me a headache and I can't seem find any up to date tutorials!
                  One man developer on "We who are about to Die"
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                  http://jordylakiere.com/

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                    #24
                    I have the same issue and also the target mesh appears pink.

                    Are there some specific conditions the skeletal mesh must fulfill?

                    Click image for larger version

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by MrRabbit View Post
                      the target mesh appears pink
                      it's pink because "max distanses" = 0. when you begin to brush, the color will change

                      despite a lot of inconvenience, this tool in UE4 is much better and clearer than the apex import from 3DS Max. From Max I always received something unpredictable.

                      I'm still wondering how to use the masks. no one asked a question about it in this topic. Max apex-plugin has no masks. why are they here in UE4?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Hi everyone! Thanks for giving the tools a try - I'm sorry about some of the issues you are hitting. Most of them are known or fixed in our dev branch right now but I'll provide some info here so everyone knows what to expect soon

                        Originally posted by Giinyiz View Post
                        What Should i do If the cloth is not colliding with the Physics asset at all?
                        Originally posted by Roxasblu View Post
                        Hello, I'm new to cloths, been trying .apx only a few days ago, how does the collision work for this? How do I create it? Is it to be created directly inside the Engine or through an external software like it was for .apx cloths? Anyway I'm totally loving this feature!
                        Originally posted by WideBoy View Post
                        The collision is handled by the Physics asset in the engine. The "tubes" that kinda represents the bones is the collision. BUT, you everytime you modify size/Rotation/location etc of these tubes, you gotha create the cloth piece over again since collision detection for the cloth is made with the pshysicsasset how it was when you created it...

                        Apparently this is going to change some time in the future, but as of for now, you gotha create a new cloththingy everytime you make changes to the psysicsAsset.
                        I've got this fixed now, the physics asset is simply referenced and the bodies are extracted when the clothing simulation is created in game instead of when the asset is created in editor.

                        Originally posted by Roxasblu View Post
                        Ah thank you, now I understand why I was changing stuff but it was still the same everytime, I think I'll have to create one manually, as the one ue automatically created won't let me change the capsules into cubes..
                        Right now only spheres and capsules will be extracted. I will hopefully get the time soon to add limited cube support. The clothing solver we are using (NvCloth) can only support 32 convex planes per simulation which is only going to net you 5 cubes. I'd advise not using convex and cube geometry for clothing and stick with spheres and capsules.

                        Originally posted by VikaBee View Post
                        Tried this tool. Some things seemed to me not convenient. When I work with a brush, do not very well see what I'm doing:

                        1) Typically, mesh clothing has a lot of polygons and vertices, so the squares are also very many and they visually merge with each other. The color of the mesh changes as soon as I click on the brush and begin to paint. Squares - very uncomfortable. Is it possible to make the display of values how is this done in 3DS Max - through color or with lines of different lengths? The lines (maximum distance, etc.) I can see in the viewport, but not while working with the brush.
                        2) It is awkward that the mesh is translucent. I usually make clothes a separate mesh, so in the editor I see only this part. When it is translucent, I can see the back side, the back squares merge with the front squares. It's a sort of mixture that is hard to understand what I'm doing now with a brush. Especially uncomfortable if I work with a skirt or dress.
                        The clothing simulation mesh should ideally be a very coarse approximation of the actual renderable geometry as clothing simulations are expensive (especially if collision is used). If the squares at each vertex are merging for you I'd say that simulation mesh is likely too complex for the application (although obviously there's always exceptions e.g. only one char has complex clothing).

                        Either way I have removed the rendering of every vertex and instead use an overlaid wireframe now, the points only draw inside the brush interactor so complex meshes should be easier to edit in future.

                        Originally posted by Antvg View Post
                        Either i am doing something wrong or there is some problem. When i press enable paint tools, the section changes spatial rotation from upright to laying on the ground. When i try to paint it with brush - nothing changes. No matter what strength i set it continues being white. After numerous tries and reading this thread i blindly tried "gradient" method a few times (i don't really understand how it works, previously only painted with brush in maya) and it started working very crudely in physical body window while simulating, but it still doesn't work in game.
                        Originally posted by jordylakiere View Post
                        Same as Antvg - mesh drops to the floor and no matter what I do it won't start simulating -- experimental definitely I hope to see this work soon, the PhysX cloth modifier in max is giving me a headache and I can't seem find any up to date tutorials!
                        This was a bug that I've resolved in our dev branches, the root bone transform was being incorrectly applied in the editor for the editable proxy. Meshes imported with rotations displayed incorrectly but should still work when simulating.

                        Originally posted by VikaBee View Post
                        it's pink because "max distanses" = 0. when you begin to brush, the color will change

                        despite a lot of inconvenience, this tool in UE4 is much better and clearer than the apex import from 3DS Max. From Max I always received something unpredictable.

                        I'm still wondering how to use the masks. no one asked a question about it in this topic. Max apex-plugin has no masks. why are they here in UE4?
                        Masks were partially implemented as 4.16 went out. It's essentially a level of indirection ontop of the parameters so we can have multiple versions while editing and switch between those in the clothing tool. In 4.16 they have no effect and can be safely ignored. In future releases you will use masks to target and affect parameters rather than directly painting the parameter. In the long term this will allow us to add more advanced features like blending and maybe switching out masks on the fly (although that currently isn't planned, just a possibility for the future).
                        Animation and Physics Programmer, UE4, Epic Games

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                          #27
                          Hey Exelcior,
                          I'm using the new cloth system for curtains but ran into a nasty polygon smoothing issue.
                          see the shot of the imported curtains while not being simulated. they look all smooth and fine.
                          Click image for larger version

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                          and see the simulated ones. they have all kinds of smoothing problems. Is this problem known, or am I doing it wrong?
                          Click image for larger version

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                          See also the wireframe of the cloth. My best guess would be like trying out more triangulated geometry, like the garment modifier in 3dsmax produces. I will try this out now. But perhaps you also know a better approach to address this problem?
                          I also tried all kinds of stiffness and gravity settings to have the cloth not be "elongated" too much; which perhaps causes this problem. but whatever numbers you try, there will always be a small stretch on this big chunk of cloth
                          Click image for larger version

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                          Comment


                            #28
                            Yes, I also changed the settings and could not understand why the clothes are so badly stretched. In the settings of cloth-properties something has changed dramatically with the change of the engine version. I made a simple project with a curtain. APEX and fabric properties were configured in MAX.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Here is the curtain in 4.14

                            Click image for larger version

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                            and the same curtain in 4.16 (just opened the project as a copy in 4.16)

                            Click image for larger version

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                            in 4.14 the curtain is stretched and deforms much less than a curtain with the same properties in 4.16.
                            Settings of cloth-properties UE4.16-version has a lot more. But I couldn't find detailed documentation about what each of them means.

                            ApexClothTestProject.zip UE_4.14.3 (5.8Mb) link

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                              #29
                              thx for pointing this out VikaBee!
                              and yes the uv distortion is visible.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                while I still hope for an explanation or a solution concerning the smoothing errors, i found a workaround to hide the artifacts by using a texture with more contrasts in it

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