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[Community Project] WIP Weather & Ocean Water Shader

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  • replied
    hey duke22

    I was following the development of this community project in the past and what was really bothering me was not the project itself, but the constant changes into the UE API that required quite constantly each new release to make a lot of changes. A blueprint version in this case gives a little less headache, while I agree the matter about performance, once the blueprint nativization came out, for the assets where it works, it is a bless. Projects like PWS benefit from nativization because buoyancy in plain blueprint really does not perform well, and for me this community project does it right while placing anything about buoyancy inside the C++ code. I don't recall the source correctly, but I remember I have stripped in the past everything but buoyancy, because the other features I was not confortable leaving because thats more code to maintain, I didn't need them and I didn't regreat.. those features thou could be placed in a separate plugin for the sake of portability and isolation: ie: why the code does not works in this new release? Oh it is the fish manager, but oh I dont use it

    The quality of this ocean is good enough for most projects and I think anyone wanting to use it, should learn from it, and MUST strip anything he thinks doesn't need to be there to seek performance, mainly the Ultra Ocean which has few things that can be changed. I don't have budget to look at it right now or I would contribute for it, but that might change in the future (soon (TM from someone)).

    It is good and I congratulate everyone engaged into this project.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Deathrey View Post

    On reference hardware, there is no measurable game thread performance difference between running 2x32 grids on nativized blueprints and reference C++ implementation.
    On reference hardware, there is an average of 0.14 ms GPU time difference and measurable, but insignificant differences on both threads between running 4x256 grids via blueprint render to texture and reference compute shader implementation in favor of the latter one.

    No clue how you decided that this overhead is not affordable for it is clearly not the case. Overall, I'm pretty comfy with the mentioned overhead and I don't have any doubts, that a certain deal of engine users would warmly accept trading that cost for an option to stay way from plugins and/or source builds.
    Well that's pretty cool.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by duke22 View Post
    you can't afford the overhead of either blueprint or the blueprint to c++ conversion.
    On reference hardware, there is no measurable game thread performance difference between running 2x32 grids on nativized blueprints and reference C++ implementation.
    On reference hardware, there is an average of 0.14 ms GPU time difference and measurable, but insignificant differences on both threads between running 4x256 grids via blueprint render to texture and reference compute shader implementation in favor of the latter one.

    No clue how you decided that this overhead is not affordable for it is clearly not the case. Overall, I'm pretty comfy with the mentioned overhead and I don't have any doubts, that a certain deal of engine users would warmly accept trading that cost for an option to stay way from plugins and/or source builds.
    Last edited by Deathrey; 02-01-2018, 06:37 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by duke22 View Post

    I don't see why not, it doesn't do anything out of the ordinary.
    Yeah good to hear. I'll give it a try! Was/am worried because the title says it's also a weather project it might override or cancel out some of the stuff truesky is doing. But we'll see

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Thijs Linssen View Post
    Hi guys,
    I might have asked this before but want to check again... Is this project suitable and easy to integrate with Truesky?
    Thx
    I don't see why not, it doesn't do anything out of the ordinary.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Deathrey View Post

    I did FFT water on blueprints, both graphics and physics. What is so insane about it ?
    Because it's something you want to squeeze every bit of performance out of, so you can't afford the overhead of either blueprint or the blueprint to c++ conversion. It's like writing a server in javascript (and before you chime in, node.js is written in c with a js front end).

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  • replied
    Hi guys,
    I might have asked this before but want to check again... Is this project suitable and easy to integrate with Truesky?
    Thx

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by duke22 View Post
    Why are you so intent on it being a BP solution (by the way, waveworks isn't a plugin, and plugins can contain BP code)? No one is writing an FFT solution in blueprint, that would be insane. They're choosing the right tools for the job, not what's easier to read for a certain crowd.
    I did FFT water on blueprints, both graphics and physics. What is so insane about it ?

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  • replied
    To all posters, please keep your posts professional at all times and although you are entitled to your opinions, please do not step over the boundaries: https://forums.unrealengine.com/unre...ode-of-conduct

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  • replied
    Why are you so intent on it being a BP solution (by the way, waveworks isn't a plugin, and plugins can contain BP code)? What's wrong with core classes being exposed to BP? No one is writing an FFT solution in blueprint, that would be insane. They're choosing the right tools for the job, not what's easier to read for a certain crowd.

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  • replied
    Well, lets tell the whole story, before we destroy someone with a promising future here. Jonathan is only 23 years old. He could use a mentor, he doesn't deserve this .... And I do not find your characterization of him to be even remotely what I have experienced. EPIC did authorize the release of his NeOcean on the Marketplace... lets not forget that... If it had software copyright issues, why did they approve it?

    This is some of the backstory that I know ....

    In a matter of days, he added transparency to the Physical Ocean Surface shader, a feature the seller had promised for over 18 months. His work extended POS with a beautiful underwater effect and surface transparency. Buyers of POS liked it so much they asked for it. He then gave it away for free. It was EPIC that pulled the plug, and said he had to charge for it. Jonathan tried to work with the seller, but the seller refused. And to this day, POS lacks transparency. So the buyers of POS lost out.

    Now for this plug-in and NeOcean ...

    TK-Master, created a lot of interested about a year ago when he posted some of his work here, and said he would release it on the Marketplace as an all Blueprint project. There are many of us that want a BP ocean, not a plug-in. If I wanted that, I would use NVIDIA WaveWorks. But for whatever reason, no BP implementation came out.

    However, Jonathan did manage to put together a great Ocean shader, all in BPs, the same thing TK promised to do. And once again it was EPIC that refused to put it on the Marketplace for free, and said he had to charge for it. So Jonathan released NeOcean. And now, EPIC has taken it down and given all buyers a refund.

    As far as "stole," I don't know how much he took or changed. Maybe he did, I don't know. But this can be up for interpretation. Every programmer I know "borrows" from somewhere. In court proceeding, both the prosecution and defense use the same set of facts to draw totally opposing positions. What did Microsoft and Apple borrow from Xerox?

    Once again, it is this community that is the loser here. Now, every dev will be cautious of releasing a BP implementation of a full blown Ocean shader, especially if it contains anything based on this or other work. How could TK or anybody ever release a BP implementation without someone running to EPIC and having it pulled from the Marketplace?

    NeOcean looked good, really good, on a par with this plug-in I would say. And Jonathan was coming out with updates weekly. I don't question Jonathan's spirit ... perhaps it is others, that for various reason, that have the wrong spirit. Jonathan may have borrowed and built upon a foundation of other's work, but he released a full function water Shader that looked beautiful above and below the waterline, with great foam, buoyancy, masking for ship hulls, God Rays, caustics, great SSS, and he was working on shore line effects for the next update. He did in months what others did not do in years. That is a fact, and perhaps that intimidates some people.

    EPIC shares some of the responsibility. The Marketplace review process failed. They could have told him what to change, and he would have complied. Jonathan was only following their direction and Marketplace release process.

    And now, we are back where we started years ago. And I suspect, if I check back in two years, we will be on page 290 of the forum, and still no BP implementation of this or any other full feature Ocean water... because the first person that tries, even someone like TK, and the other sellers will run to EPIC, and have it pulled.

    This kid is bright. Someone should offer him a job.


    Last edited by CrashA51; 01-31-2018, 06:06 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by jonathan light
    I have managed to integrate transparency into the project + underwater effect cut (Physical Water Surface)



    I like that you took all the hard work from the contributors, changed it a bit and rather than contributing in the spirit of this project - sold it. Not only that but you stole some code from the Physical Ocean Surface author and released it as your own. Really good job.

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  • replied
    TK-Master i'll buy you a whole box of red bull if you release your fft water.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by duke22 View Post
    I've included a total of 3 tileable ocean textures in this one with varying degrees of choppiness. Feel free to use them in any way you wish, including commercial projects and marketplace assets. Note that i'm pretty sure the green channel has to be inverted.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/rc9op6nh4k...tures.zip?dl=0
    Thank you! its nice to see additions to the project. I myself am working on a relatively accurate weather add on to the time manager in this project. If I manage it will be pretty cool. Weather based on time/day/lat/long and terrain such as water,desert,grass and buildings. All automatic. NO hardcoded events! Which will fit nicely with this
    Last edited by EvoPulseGaming; 01-30-2018, 11:17 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by DarkRisenGaming View Post
    EvoPulseGaming

    Thanks for the information, this is one project that caught my wife's and my eyes for sure.
    Only thing so far i notice that crashes the engine is the Fish, you add any one of them and Crash happens.
    Any info on this ?

    Thanks once again, will wait your reply.
    DarkRisenGaming
    Using 4.18 and the Fish map, I see the crash happen. I can look into it

    Edit:
    Solved: those fish are children of "FlockFish", which is managed by BP_FishManager, using them directly results in the crash because they have no reference to BP_FishManager!

    Solution : Drag n drop BP_FishManager into scene, and in the right hand details pane, you can add "Flock Types" which is just an array of BP actors that use the FlockFish as a parent

    You can even customize the number of fish!
    Last edited by EvoPulseGaming; 01-29-2018, 03:15 AM.

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