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Physics Forests - A New Real-time Fluid Solver

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Raindance View Post
    1. Blueprints integration. Would be kinda cool to be able to attach fluid emitter to movable BP actor, be it a weapon or just a fluid container.
    We started implementing unreal plugin only ~2 weeks ago, so far we are able to visualize the result, but the simulation is defined outside of unreal. We plan to do a full integration within a few weeks. Attaching the source to a movable BP actor should not be a problem; from the simulation point of view it is the same as in that teddy bear video, where we controlled the emitter by the mouse.
    Originally posted by Raindance View Post
    2. Flooding simulation and water resistance. I work on game with underwater vehicles in it, and I had to simulate underwater movement by making a 6-axis zero gravity vehicle. One hell of workaround that requires a lot of additional parameters to look right. The very fact that you have a working buoyancy already makes me happy, but it would be even more cool if it would be possible to tweak buoyant actor sinking, ideally with visual flooding inside the mesh or without it by just tweaking parameters.
    It should be already possible, all these tweaking parameters are already there.
    Originally posted by Raindance View Post
    3. Wave generator.
    that should be possible with a small additional external force (slight modification to what was used in the last dust video in "various materials")
    Originally posted by Raindance View Post
    4. Ability to make unlimited distance water pool with blueprint actor.
    I don't fully understand this request. Unlimited simulation would be possible only if we simulate the water only in some region of interest and elsewhere it would be governed by a wave equations. We plan to work on various approximation methods like this in the near future.
    Originally posted by Raindance View Post
    5. Cut out zones in fluid surface for objects/landscape placement
    That can be already done and it was used for example in the sandcastle scene.
    Originally posted by Raindance View Post
    I know it is probably a bit too early to ask, but I assume you targeting unreal marketplace with this thing, so I would like to know about theoretical pricing for final version.
    It is a bit too early, it will depend on the interest and on what will our plugin eventually include. We also work on a few other applications of our method (so far in the released videos both acceleration prediction and surface generation are done using machine learning), we will release videos when we are happy with the quality.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Raindance View Post
      in current state imo this simulation looks better than the vast majority of currently existing solutions. I know it is probably a bit too early to ask, but I assume you targeting unreal marketplace with this thing, so I would like to know about theoretical pricing for final version.
      If they get this to a state where its usable in many games, I would definitely advise against putting it on the marketplace. They should go the more common middleware way of doing custom licensing, with options for indies and for AAA. There would definitely be big companies interested in this, and those are willing to pay a lot more than indies.

      I would suggest doing it like InstaLOD does: http://www.instalod.io

      An indie version for something like $79 and custom licensing for bigger companies
      Easy to use UMG Mini Map on the UE4 Marketplace.
      Forum thread: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...-Plug-and-Play

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      • #18
        I can see this being very useful for making offline simulated assets, like realistic looking riverbeds with pre-simulated water flow.

        Although Real-time fluid simulation in AAA titles might be a few years out in terms of hardware, having a user-friendly way to create water flows & structures that have been baked for placement in static worlds would have a variety of applications and presumably be vastly more performant than a real time simulation.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by JonTerp View Post
          Although Real-time fluid simulation in AAA titles might be a few years out in terms of hardware, having a user-friendly way to create water flows & structures that have been baked for placement in static worlds would have a variety of applications and presumably be vastly more performant than a real time simulation.
          The technology development is in a very early stage and so far we just tried to figure out the right setting, such that the simulation looks reasonable, can handle interactions (so far rigid bodies, but in principle the method can be similarly combined with other kinds of objects) and can generate surface. I'm aware that the technology is not practically useful yet as it is, but there is a large space for improvement not only by raw optimization of the GPU code, but also by simulating a different level of details depending on the distance from the camera (either using height map, wave equations for ocean, varying sized particles, ..) . All these tricks would cause stability problems in our methods, but our regressor would be just fine with that. Basically, it should be possible to run arbitrary large scene with only 1M predictions per frame. But all the tweaking and optimization will take some time.

          The main reason we advertised our method was to get some feed-back from the people from the field, and potentially get some assets/designed scenes to tune all these LOD hacks (so far that doesn't seem that easy). It might be too early for our method even after we do all the things we plan, but I just case how this would be the case in 5 years.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by lubor_ View Post

            If anyone's interested in our project, or is able to provide us some example scenario from UE4 with a lot of water, so that we can optimize an algorithm for a particular scenario, please send me a message or write a comment below.
            an ocean.

            a mountain river coming down to plains where it starts meandering.

            water and sand interaction

            just to mention 3 things i would use this for. If i could.

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            • #21
              really impressive, especially the video mixing water and sand.
              nice job, i 'm keeping an eye on it

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              • #22
                I saw this tread from last streaming.
                Looks very amazing. Just curious how much fast it can render it.
                Please visit and follow my Artstation
                https://www.artstation.com/artist/archivolts

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                • #23
                  Must run < 10ms on 5 years old hardware then someone is going to find some uses for this in games.
                  | Finite State Machine | Object-Pool Plugin | Auto-Save Plugin | Anti-Cheat Plugin |

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                  • #24
                    Great work so far, having it for waterfalls and forest streams, as well as for waterflowing over a mill wheel will be very nice to see and uses I am interested in.

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                    • #25
                      Proud of you all, shouts out to you for experimenting with this. I'm assuming the goal is to implement this kind of simulation in real time games? I see some of the other devs here saying that this would be useful for offline sim, but that's essentially what Houdini is for and I'm sure that's not what you're going for. What are the specs of the rig running those simulations? Sorry if this was already answered, didn't see it.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by thenegaverse View Post
                        What are the specs of the rig running those simulations?
                        NVidia TitanX Pascal (the one from Aug 2016)
                        CPU is (almost) not used at all

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MeepMeep View Post
                          Just curious how much fast it can render it.
                          all fluids except sand are rendered at a mesh, so the rendering is way faster than for example in FLEX
                          sand (or any non-transparent particles) can be also rendered quite fast because we can skip large majority based on signed distance, which is calculated anyway
                          foam is rendered at circular sprites (same as in other systems) so if you zoom too much, it might get a bit slower

                          edit: hard to quantify exactly, but it was about ~1-4ms in all those simulations (except that "dust" video)
                          it's already included in the time shown
                          Last edited by lubor_; 04-09-2017, 04:33 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BrUnO XaVIeR View Post
                            Must run < 10ms on 5 years old hardware then someone is going to find some uses for this in games.
                            I wouldn't say that, 2 ms on 2 year old hardware sounds better. It doesn't need to run at all on 5 years old hardware.

                            I would want to use this in VR, and there no one has older hardware. The worst GPU this would have to run on is a GTX 970. As long as its possible to adjust how expensive it is, maybe by setting simulation accuracy or just giving people with a GTX 970 thicker fluids (bigger particles) than people with a 1080, its completely fine
                            Easy to use UMG Mini Map on the UE4 Marketplace.
                            Forum thread: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...-Plug-and-Play

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                            • #29
                              When you say Machine Learning, do you mean something similar to this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOWa...ature=youtu.be
                              When is saw that my thought was ; "This needs to be in Unreal."

                              This is absolutely fantastic though, as a hobby game developer, ((I also work at Ubisoft but only as an artist there)) I have...or will have a sort of large dock scene where I am trying to get the ocean to behave like a real ocean, for a stealth like game, so for me this is a really real question; Can or would this be able to be used to simulate realistic motion of an ocean on a about a kilometer of dockyard shoreline with rocks and coastal armoring blocking larger incoming waves from the open ocean to create shallow calm areas where small boats are moored? The level is smaller but the shoreline is really bendy heh. Right now I'm using flowmaps that control heightmaps but...A physically simulated ocean would be really pleasant to watch, especially for a game where you mostly sit around watching from the shadows.

                              I would love to get my hands on this to experiment with...Much like everyone else here I guess. I love experimental technology.

                              PS: I would gladly sacrifice the chamfers on my stone wall assets or the density of my grass to implement this. I honestly believe technology like this is more interesting for a player to at least look at than a really detailed rock.
                              Last edited by MischievousM; 04-11-2017, 07:48 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MischievousM View Post
                                When you say Machine Learning, do you mean something similar to this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOWa...ature=youtu.be
                                When is saw that my thought was ; "This needs to be in Unreal."
                                the general idea is based on the our old paper, mentioned also there in the description ( https://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/lad..._sigasia15.pdf ), but it has been significantly modified, so that the results are better, and all the new features are possible (rigid coupling, multiple fluids, granular materials, surface generation, etc).
                                Originally posted by MischievousM View Post
                                Can or would this be able to be used to simulate realistic motion of an ocean on a about a kilometer of dockyard shoreline with rocks and coastal armoring blocking larger incoming waves from the open ocean to create shallow calm areas where small boats are moored?
                                we plan work in the very recent future on various tricks combining those methods with ours to make it scale to that size
                                simply it is simulated where you are looking, elsewhere some tricks are applied, and there is a smooth transition between those two

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