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Scissor2D - A new 2D toolkit plugin

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  • [PLUGIN] Scissor2D - A new 2D toolkit plugin



    Previous Updates:

    Progress Update 6 - Public Roadmap
    Progress Update 5 - Perspective 2D Mode Prototype
    Progress Update 4 - Box2D Physics Prototype
    Progress Update 3 - Sorting Layer Experiments
    Progress Update 2 - Rough Asset Pipeline
    Progress Update 1 - Batched Renderer Prototype


    (original post was an initial call for feedback)
    Last edited by Structure; 08-15-2017, 12:38 PM.
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  • #2
    Yes!!!! The list sounds awesome.
    One addition I'd like to see is 2D collision or at least non-capsule collision on Character blueprints. Its pure hell to work with this and I would prefer to use the character blueprint/class with Box or Sphere collision on paper 2d characters.

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    • #3
      Hey [MENTION=28597]Structure[/MENTION] -

      Got a few requests for this.
      1. Being able apply a sprite to a billboard similar to Wolf3D or DooM would be awesome.
      2. Being able to use Spine, DragonBones, or Spriter with this toolkit would be useful.
      3. A Top down character template would be awesome as well.
      4. A DooM 1 or 2 Like Character Controller would be useful as well. Unsure if this falls into the scope of the project though.

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      • #4
        Game Maker Studio 2: UE4 Definitive Version. `Nuff Said.
        Website/Portfolio: http://www.VictorBurgosGames.com

        Join me on stream: https://www.twitch.tv/VictorBurgosGames for UE4 Game Dev. If you need help, just stop by and ask!

        Subscribe to www.youtube.com/c/victorburgosgames for UE4 Tutorials, Live Streams and also Past Streams.

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        • #5
          My biggest issues in paper2d is animation handling. Controlling how animations play as in do they loop or not and making sure certain animations play all the way through before another can begin etc. I also had trouble with animation state machines in paper2d. I must be doing something wrong but I can not for the life of me seem to make it work properly. Maybe my checks are not done well enough I don't know but for whatever reason I can not get the animations to properly switch using any of the ways I have seen examples of. I tried everything I can think of and it just never works. I can't even imagine what would happen if I had a ton of different animation states.

          Having a better way to control these things would make using unreal for 2d games so much better than it is right now.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TriNityGER View Post
            I'd like to see is 2D collision or at least non-capsule collision on Character blueprints.
            Yes this is something I want to support but I will need to plan how this will work. Currently Paper2D tries to add Box2D as a replacement physics backend, I think this has had limited success due to differences in feature set available in the physics engines (3d vs 2d). My feeling at the moment is that Box2D should be integrated as a separate set of 2D Physics Components, but the downside to this is you will lose some functionality written to the current physics interface. This will then need a set of new components (such as character controllers etc) that are specialised to use the new 2D physics components. With this we can support any collider type that Box2D supplies, and this will all be covered by the toolkit.

            Originally posted by HeadClot View Post
            Got a few requests for this.
            1. Being able apply a sprite to a billboard similar to Wolf3D or DooM would be awesome.
            2. Being able to use Spine, DragonBones, or Spriter with this toolkit would be useful.
            3. A Top down character template would be awesome as well.
            4. A DooM 1 or 2 Like Character Controller would be useful as well. Unsure if this falls into the scope of the project though.
            1) 2D in 3d workflow is something I would like to support, but I will need to investigate the implications for auto batching of sprites interfering with other 'non sprite' geometry. This comes down to where I can do the batching of geometry in the render pipeline, while still keeping the functionality in a plugin. For example, say you had 2 billboard sprites with another actor with a mesh component in between then when viewed from the camera. If I auto batch these billboards together and send them as one draw call, this will produce incorrect draw order when drawing all 3 items. Some experimentation will be needed here
            2) We use Spine in our current workflow so this is something we would be keen to integrate. Other solutions may come over time depending on demand.
            3) A top down character template does sound awesome, I'll put it on the list!
            4) Probaby out of the scope of this, but if i end up messing around with billboards enough it could be a good example project.

            Originally posted by VictorBurgos View Post
            Game Maker Studio 2: UE4 Definitive Version. `Nuff Said.
            Game Maker Studio 2 is looking pretty solid. Apart from the integrated asset production tools it is my goal for this plugin to surpass its functionality for 2D work, while still having all the joys of the UE4 ecosystem

            Originally posted by Corpsecrank View Post
            My biggest issues in paper2d is animation handling
            I will be doing a full review of animation handling both in Paper2D and other engine solutions to find an enjoyable workflow. Ideally this should be controllable from tooling, blueprints and c++ with ease.


            Thanks everyone, this feedback is very useful and will help shape the plugin into something great for everyone to use. I am currently investigating where in the Unreal render pipeline I can insert a batch renderer for sprites, there are a few options so I will need to do some prototyping and see what works well.

            Keep the feedback / ideas coming!
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            • #7
              Question: If you're going to be building out this functionality why not use what's already available but finish the implementations or rework the current implementations? The reason I ask is because it might be easier to put in pull requests on the git that Michael Noland can approve of and everyone can get via engine updates (with the added benefit Epic approval and maintenance ) instead of having to constantly manage another plugin to their source code.
              WIP Wasabi Horizon: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...wasabi+horizon

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Demoneyejin View Post
                why not use what's already available but finish the implementations
                Yep, this is a good question that I've been considering myself.

                As this is a commercial plugin, I would like to not rely on core functionality from another plugin that could potentially change significantly in the future. Although initially there will be quite a bit of core implementation overlap, I think this is the way to go for long term stability for the users.

                I have evaluated the code supplied by Paper2D and I would need to rewrite parts of how the internals work to achieve some of our feature goals. This creates an issue where I would need to push functionality into Paper2D to move forwards with the features I need to implement, but still leave it in a usable state without this plugin.

                This will be a bit of a maintenance headache as I will not have control over when Paper2D functionality is updated or what could change underneath me.

                Hope that makes sense!
                Last edited by Structure; 04-05-2017, 06:23 AM.
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                • #9
                  1.
                  Autotiling at mapping.
                  F.e. select and tag Tiles that work as autotile via mapping.

                  2.
                  Animated tiles

                  3.
                  Layer Data Control.
                  In Paper2D is no control for setzing visibility of layers in a tilemap, or changing materials of specific layers only..etc

                  Would bring Maps forward

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chaosgod_Espér View Post
                    1.Autotiling at mapping
                    2.Animated tiles
                    3.Layer Data Control
                    1) Not exactly sure what you mean here, but if you are talking about tiles that lay themselves out correctly depending on their neighboring tiles, yes I plan to support customisable tile brushes with placement logic
                    2) Yep!
                    3) I can add these features to tile editor yes
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                    • #11
                      For me, having Flipbooks (or a replacement) support all the same (non-bone specific) animation functionality that skeletal mesh animations do would be huge. So, animation blueprint stuff, state machines, anim notifies, montages (with branching points), animation curves, etc. etc. You can already do a lot of 2d bone animation stuff using run-times from Spine and Creature, but they are all outside of the UE4 built-in functionality. In other words, I really just want the 2d sprite animation to work just like the standard 3d animation asset and use the standard editor features. Sounds easy

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                      • #12
                        Sounds great!

                        How many people will be working on the new 2d system at your company?
                        Why did yall choose unreal over other engines with better 2d features? (lol, I had you yall here before edit)

                        I mainly want better physics and notifications from animations.
                        Last edited by jacobgood1; 04-09-2017, 09:55 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jzela View Post
                          having Flipbooks (or a replacement) support all the same (non-bone specific) animation functionality that skeletal mesh animations
                          Yes I would like to see this too, but it will depend on how decoupled the tooling is from the 3d skeletal mesh system. If it is not then I would like to provide alternative GUI tooling for this functionality.

                          Originally posted by jacobgood1 View Post
                          1) How many people will be working on the new 2d system at your company?
                          2) Why did you yall choose unreal over other engines with better 2d features?
                          3) I mainly want better physics and notifications from animations.
                          1) We are just a small indie studio, so initially it will be me working on this full time (with contractors for example assets)
                          2) Yes agreed there are alternatives with much better 2d toolsets, but I feel Unreal outshines them in all other areas. Specifically: c++ with source, feature set / platform support, engine licensing model, Epics long term stability and great community!
                          3) Noted!
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                          • #14
                            How are things going? Is there a github repo where we can view progress? Trello for a roadmap? Thanks!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jacobgood1 View Post
                              How are things going? Is there a github repo where we can view progress? Trello for a roadmap? Thanks!
                              Hi jacobgood1, the plugin is just in planning at the moment so early days for such things. I am currently making some prototypes for how the batched renderer can work with the underlying Unreal renderer, while still remaining a plugin. I will post some updates about this when I have something I'm happy with. It is important to get the design of this right as everything else will build off off how this works

                              Reg a public github repo, this is a commercial plugin, so that is not possible, but I will be providing full source through the marketplace. Trello roadmap is a great idea and I'll get one set up a little further down the road.
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