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RPG MMO Server System for UE4

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    #16
    [MENTION=35165]Chieling[/MENTION]

    Originally posted by Chieling View Post
    so then you are looking to host also?
    There are multiple server components in this system (see my first post for a diagram). To keep it easy for hobbyist developers to get up an running right away I would run the Login / Management server (an MVC .NET web app running on IIS and a SQL database) component for them. Developers would still run the World Server program (a small Windows application) on their local development PC or server. They would also run the UE4 map instances (these take the most resources).

    If and when a developer wants to take their project live I would consult with them on how they could setup their own web farm in the cloud for themselves (I don't want to host anyone's live systems).

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      #17
      sounds very interesting.

      I definitely be interested in a solution like this. We are working on a project that this would possibly be a huge time saver on.

      off question. do u plan on adding a chat server?

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        #18
        [MENTION=35165]Chieling[/MENTION]

        Originally posted by Chieling View Post
        off question. do u plan on adding a chat server?
        My game has a chat system, climbing system, and server/multiplayer based day/night cycle, but I have not decided if any of these will be included in the template project for the MMO server system. I guess if I include them in the template project people can just choose not to use them if they don't want them. I still need to check with Epic to see if I am even allowed to distribute a template project for people to start with. I am hoping I can distribute a compiled project/DLL so that developers who only use blueprints and don't want to install Visual Studio can still use my system.

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          #19
          My game has a chat system, climbing system, and server/multiplayer based day/night cycle, but I have not decided if any of these will be included in the template project for the MMO server system. I guess if I include them in the template project people can just choose not to use them if they don't want them.
          id say include because I couldn't see people NOT using them honestly, but that's my personal opinion.

          I asked about a chat system because I didn't see a chat server as a separate entity and wasn't sure if u were separating out chat or if u were going to do chat from within UE4 itself.

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            #20
            [MENTION=35165]Chieling[/MENTION]

            Originally posted by Chieling View Post
            I asked about a chat system because I didn't see a chat server as a separate entity and wasn't sure if u were separating out chat or if u were going to do chat from within UE4 itself.
            That is a good point. My current chat system is inside UE4, so this means you are limited to chatting with people on the same map instance. This works for my game (only 5 players), but won't likely work for other games. I would have to add a Chat Server component to the Login / Management server to handle chatting with all players in the world regardless of which Map Instance they are on. I will look into it. Seems fairly simple.

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              #21
              awesome

              ill be following your progress on this!

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                #22
                [MENTION=9662]Smartay[/MENTION]

                Originally posted by Smartay View Post
                This is almost an exact fit for my needs except I would need to spawn a server based on matchmaking and would have multiple launches of possibly the same map but for a more traditional teambased 5v5 or 6v6 (basically a lot more instances of a smaller world )would you say there are any preferences for this being on windows as opposed to linux based and how much you would charge or if even interested in making modifications along this line?
                I am planning on adding a system for spinning up dungeon instance servers similar to how World of Warcraft does for 5 mans and 10 mans. It seems like this type of thing is what you would be looking for to do 5v5 or 6v6. The current system will not keep groups of people together, so the modification I will be making is that when a server is spun up it will tag the pre-defined group of users to that server and not allow others to join. I have a few other things to clean up before I get to this, but it is definitely on my roadmap. I only work with Microsoft technologies so I don't currently have any interest in making this system work on Linux servers.

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                  #23
                  So about player limits with the default UE4 server. I saw this come up a few times.

                  There are no "hard set limits" when it comes to player counts. It all comes down to your hardware, the complexity of the game logic, and the number of players. UDK had a hard limit of 64 players. UE4 did away with that limit.
                  While it wont be able to get MMO levels of players with out some form of major modifications to the default server tech it can get allot of players 128+ in some cases.

                  Just thought I would chime in on that.
                  [MENTION=8243]Dartanlla[/MENTION] -

                  What price point are you thinking about for this tech?

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                    #24
                    [MENTION=260]HeadClot[/MENTION]

                    Thanks for the explanation of the UE4 server limit. Even if you can only get 100 players per map that still seems pretty good. Then have a dozen or so maps per server and you can get 1,000+ players on one server.

                    I haven't really decided what the price point would be, but here is what I was thinking. Most UE4 developers are hobbyists like myself, so they need something simple that doesn't cost a lot. I was thinking of selling a developer license for somewhere around a $50 one time fee that gets you the world server component, a UE4 starter project (assuming Epic allows me to distribute this) and use of my server hardware for the central management server that requires Microsoft IIS and SQL. This will allow blueprint only UE4 developers to get up and running instantly, not have to spend $30 a month on server hosting, and not have to deal with complicated server configuration. Then if someone does want to release a game to the public I can work with them to setup all the necessary server hardware at a reasonable cost. Let me know your thoughts on this price point / configuration. Thanks!

                    I should have a video showing how the system works later today.

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                      #25
                      [MENTION=8243]Dartanlla[/MENTION] this is something I'd also be interested in checking out as I've been looking into persistent player data solutions for a while for the game I'm working on (including looking at BaaS solutions, though most seem to mainly be used by mobile games). I've also looked into rolling my own solution, though it would be time consuming (though I am a game dev with plenty of multiplayer experience, web programming isn't my speciality). Scalability and security would be quite important considerations as it's something I plan to release at some point, as would pricing if it ticks all the boxes

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                        #26
                        Hi Dartanlla,

                        I just stop by to show support for your project. I love The Internet/Networking and it is always awesome to see Developers to take on the UE4 MMO challenge. I peeked into the UE4 MMO Server to Server communication for a brief moment in my early UE4 days. However, I put the research on the back-burner in favor of developing Procedural/Semi-procedural Content Creation Systems. The time is coming where I will need to revisit.

                        I would be interested in a solution such as yours wrapped in a Wordpress Plugin (PHP) in which I can integrate directly with my WP powered Online Store Website. My Master Plan is to build a VR MMO Emporium in which Users can interact and purchase products from within the Virtual World. With the exception of presentation, all Product Cart and Purchase/Order Fulfillment processing would be handled by the same backend code of the Wordpress Site Server.

                        Somewhere in the middle of developing Procedural/Semi-procedural Content Creation Systems, I started writing the ArcadeKomodo Online API (AKO) [for ArcadeKomodo.com]. AKO provides a HTTP-based API to work between UE4 Online Subsystem and Wordpress Server managing Users/Login, Sessions, Matchmaking, Achievements Contests, Formats, Friends, Metadata, Points, Scoreboards, and Widgets.

                        I mention the UE4 Online Subsystem because it could offer an abstracted interface for managing sessions, creating character stats, communication with other social media online subsystems. I referenced the GameJolt API for inspiration and there be a couple UE4 GameJolt API Plugins: #1, #2 available for review. An Online Subsystem API will be the starting point for myself when I revisit development of MMO Systems.

                        Keep up the awesome work!
                        GOD of DREAMs: A Unique FTPS/RPG Sandbox MMO

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                          #27
                          [MENTION=260]HeadClot[/MENTION] [MENTION=35165]Chieling[/MENTION]

                          As promised I uploaded a video showing a quick preview of how the system works. The Microsoft Video 1 compression codec I used has terrible artifacting, but hopefully you can still get the idea. Let me know your thoughts.

                          Thanks!

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                            #28
                            [MENTION=1977]TechLord[/MENTION]

                            Sounds like a really kewl project you have there. VR Worlds are definitely the future and I love building worlds! I can't say I know a lot about PHP as it has been years since I used it, but PHP is certainly capable of connecting to a SQL backend the same as C# does, so that type of integration should be possible. Thanks for all the links. Now I have some stuff to read. I have not really looked at the UE4 Online Subsystem as my solution is mostly external. It would be kewl to have a true MMO server system in UE4 that did not replicate the Player Character classes to all other players, but to do that you would probably have to know a lot about the UE4 Online Subsystem. My solution isn't nearly that clever as I just leverage what UE4 already does and the way its multiplayer system already works.

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                              #29
                              [MENTION=1977]TechLord[/MENTION]

                              I read your Next Gen MMO Plug-in thread from 2014 and thought it was interesting that you listed SmartFox server as a possible middleware platform. Prior to switching to UE4 in May of 2014 I spent a few weeks building a simple MMO project in Unity using SmartFox as the back end server. SmartFox is a classic MMO style server; which is to say it is just a modified chat server. SmartFox was very difficult to use because there wasn't a lot of good documentation or examples. The performance of this style of server is very efficient, but I quickly ran into one huge problem. Server authoratative collisions. Basically to do it right, you have to load all your collision data (from meshes and landscapes onto the server side of the system). SmartFox does none of this for you and you have to build it all from scratch. This would be a huge undertaking and is one of the reasons I switched to UE4.

                              Anyway, just thought it was interesting that you mentioned SmartFox server and thought I would relay my experience with it.

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                                #30
                                [MENTION=8243]Dartanlla[/MENTION]

                                it looks like a great system and I like the roadmap so far!

                                will u have a way to add to what gets saved? (ie: stats, player inventory, etc) even something in a document that shows how you do it for player location may be helpful as an example.

                                Since u discussed having dungeons keeping a group of players together, are u also including some sort of mechanics for grouping?

                                I'm tryin to keep all this "server" related since this seems to be focus.... but a mail server added on later may be of interest. (EQ or WoW style is a good example)

                                if u are designing personal storage, u may want to keep in mind while u are designing this is the possibility of a guild add-on. (guild banks)

                                just a few questions and ideas that ran across my head immediately

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