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The eu wants to kill the internet!!!

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  • started a topic The eu wants to kill the internet!!!

    The eu wants to kill the internet!!!

    No, this isn't scaremongering.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvXOfq3AB8s

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...internet.shtml

    https://saveyourinternet.eu/

    Basically the EU wants to kill all independent media so that only itself and large corporations have any power. This poses a massive threat not just to free speech but also to the game community. If this happens it would basically kill game modding for example by making it illegal to make game mods unless you get written permission for each and every single mod.

    What is your reaction to this? I for one can't believe the EU is sinking this low. I would the public outrage to this will destroy the EU.

    EDIT: This law isn't just about protecting copyright It basically makes it impossible to share anything, including indie games. If this became real then your own customers would not be able to download your games unless you first give them permission to do so, and then to make matters worse people would also have to pay "link taxes". Not only that, but your own customers would also have to ask you for written permission in order to post links to your game. Let's say for example that somebody sees your game and thinks it's cool and wants to spread word of mouth by linking to your website. Guess what? They can't do that. First, they would have to contact you and get your written permission. And then they would have to pay money to post the link in the form of a link tax. What the EU is doing is that they are trying to destroy all small companies and alternative media so that the legacy media and the big companies can reclaim their old control.

    See why this is a big deal?
    Last edited by splattenburgers; 05-30-2018, 08:45 PM.

  • replied
    Originally posted by junfanbl View Post
    AI can't do anyone's bidding...it can't produce it's own motives or purpose, let a lone perpetuate another being's motives.
    Absolutely right point.

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  • replied
    Link Tax Fear:

    Those backing these provisions say the arguments above are the result of scaremongering by big US tech companies, eager to keep control of the web’s biggest platforms. They point to existing laws and amendments to the directive as proof it won’t be abused in this way. These include exemptions for sites like GitHub and Wikipedia from Article 13, and exceptions to the “link tax” that allow for the sharing of mere hyperlinks and “individual words”
    The directive itself still faces a final vote in January 2019 (although experts say it’s unlikely it will be rejected). After that it will need to be implemented by individual EU member states, who could very well vary significantly in how they choose to interpret the directive’s text.... The most important parts of this are Articles 11 and 13. Article 11 is intended to give publishers and papers a way to make money when companies like Google link to their stories, allowing them to demand paid licenses. Article 13 requires certain platforms like YouTube and Facebook stop users sharing unlicensed copyrighted material.
    Europe isn't interested in some random sites that only post links and are at risk of being caught up in the net.
    The EU is going after the usual suspects / obvious abusers, but interpretation is going to be a big part of this...
    Plus expect plenty of low-life copyright trolls and private laws firms to try and squeeze money out of websites.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/1...11-13-approved
    Last edited by franktech; 09-13-2018, 08:10 PM.

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  • replied
    Epic should be able to get an exception for the UE4 forums, as its similar to this case:

    "The text also specifies that uploading to online encyclopedias in a non-commercial way, such as Wikipedia, or open-source software platforms, such as GitHub, will automatically be excluded from the requirement to comply with copyright rules."
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/eu-sma...d-filter-laws/

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  • replied
    Originally posted by franktech View Post

    For starters, very little content is actually hosted on the forums anyway...
    As far as I understand it, content filters must scan not only for things like images or video, but even text and code. That means the forums must be scanned directly in case somebody does something such as quoting a copyrighted piece of text. In addition, the link tax means that anybody posting a link to someone else will force this site to pay a tax which would cost epic lots of money unless they are willing to ban all linking to other sites or simply block EU users so that they won't have to deal with it. For example, let's say somebody here posts a link to the website of some random artist, then epic will have to pay a tax because of that. Someone feel free to correct me if this is wrong.
    Last edited by splattenburgers; 09-13-2018, 07:07 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by splattenburgers View Post
    Same applies to this forum as well, which will probably have to be blocked to all europeans sometime next year once these laws start coming into effect. In fact, ALL internet forums on the internet will probably get blocked in Europe since there would be no practical way of monitoring them without a super expensive upload/content monitoring filter that nobody except the super rich companies will be able to afford. These laws will literally destroy the free internet for europe, and make almost all content sharing impossible. This could actually cripple the indie dev game industry for europeans.
    Or the likes of the UE4 forums will be fine and even qualify for an exemption... Lets not spread FUD / Panic.... For starters, very little content is actually hosted on the forums anyway... Videos:YT / Vimeo.... Downloads: Google-drive / Dropbox / Mediafire / Mega / Itch..... Images: Lots of pics are hosted here, but quite a lot are hosted elsewhere too. If the apocalypse happens Epic may insist devs use 3rd-Party image hosting for everything.... Then the usual players will be saddled with the problem - not Epic! File hosters and major cloud operators have the scale to handle this problem already anyway, plus the algos / machine learning / AI to do all the filtering. So where's the problem here???

    Where the problem lies in general is that smaller hosters / media-outlets / sites plus Indie musicians / filmmakers / game devs not on an exemption list somewhere may get crushed or forced to buy cloud time off bigger players to pass the 'filtering' police. But these same groups are losing out every day anyway versus the big guns. So what's actually changing? False positives / takedowns will continue too. That will silence some people unfairly and let others pass through uninterrupted because the process is a blunt hammer. But the filtering system is fundamentally broken anyway: See here and here and here and here. So something needs to change. No matter how bad this EU law is, it will start a dialog towards something else. Internet apocalypse? Even if there is one, VPNs / Tor / Startpage-Proxy to the rescue...

    So what's this law really about. Look at who stands to gain... IP copyright trolls, they'll be happy. Certain mega-artist groups will be happy along with newspapers and traditional TV media. Think TV / Print empires like Fox-Murdoch etc. They've been lobbying for this for years and will be very happy. Then there's the Politicians. They're happy because they think this is going to stick it to the arrogance of the likes of Facebook & Google etc. That 'empty' Congress chair labelled 'Google' was bad optics... But as usual what politicians expect to happen and will actually happen are totally different!

    Political anger has to go somewhere though, so why not aim it at those who scrape content and pay nothing, or those who make billions and pay little tax. For politicians this law is about payback... Some money will flow to EU newspapers and media and other creative industries. But how much? Hard to know... Who stands to gain or lose the most? Facebook / Google etc will be landed with most of the filtering and will probably end up paying for some content they scrape (can't pretend they're not publishers or content moderators anymore). But long-term they're still the ones with the best infrastructure and the brightest ML / AI PhD's, so they'll fly. Smaller operators will get crushed, but they're getting crushed every day anyway, look at the consolidation in Tech & Media. Where does one end and the other begin?!!! This law won't level the playing field as politicians hoped... Indies? They won't be saved... Overall, that's why the law is a FAIL! But hey indies were always going to get screwed over anyway... That's just how it is... ... And the UE4 forums? My bet is they'll be ok...
    Last edited by franktech; 09-15-2018, 02:53 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by savagebeasty View Post

    So things like dropbox/onedrive etc would now be illegal...that doesnt sound plausible?
    Not illegal per say, but they would have to create a massively expensive upload filter that they would never be able to afford, so it would be easier to just block Europe from the service. Same applies to this forum as well, which will probably have to be blocked to all europeans sometime next year once these laws start coming into effect. In fact, ALL internet forums on the internet will probably get blocked in Europe since there would be no practical way of monitoring them without a super expensive upload/content monitoring filter that nobody except the super rich companies will be able to afford. These laws will literally destroy the free internet for europe, and make almost all content sharing impossible. This could actually cripple the indie dev game industry for europeans.

    Originally posted by savagebeasty View Post
    i dont know...maybe im not interpretting this right. If it was such a big deal and now non dodgy sites like the ue4 forums would be illegal id imagine more of a general uproar and media coverage.
    The media isn't reporting on this because they will benefit from this law and don't want a public uproar against it. The mainstream media doesn't like alternative web media and thus they have nothing to gain from pointing out these laws and what they will do.
    Last edited by splattenburgers; 09-13-2018, 11:33 AM.

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  • replied
    testtttttttt

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  • replied
    Well nowadays it seems that you can fish for loopholes in laws and simply change your format or technology so it doesn't fit the laws description. Like Loot boxes, look at how Valve and other companies simply changed the way there "loot boxes" worked so they weren't considered gambling according to a "law". However we all know in principal its the same exact thing.

    You can change the function and design of technology faster than governments can amend laws. So I think if this is as poisonous to the internet as splattenburgers says, it may push designers and technologist to evolve the world wide web.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by savagebeasty View Post

    So things like dropbox/onedrive etc would now be illegal...that doesnt sound plausible?
    Not illegal, but it might force the companies to check all the content (which they do nowadays). Now, you may ask, what if the contents are strongly encrypted? Well, the company may very well forbid the upload of that type of content, just like gmail.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by splattenburgers View Post
    This will basically make it illegal to share or upload anything in Europe.
    So things like dropbox/onedrive etc would now be illegal...that doesnt sound plausible?

    This sounds more like making big companies pay money. Maybe if they didnt do all their dodgy irish tax dodges they wouldnt have been targetted so much

    i dont know...maybe im not interpretting this right. If it was such a big deal and now non dodgy sites like the ue4 forums would be illegal id imagine more of a general uproar and media coverage. Plenty of coverage about GDPR you couldnt not know about that

    i work in web hosting and i've heard nothing about this...but then again...i am **** at my job so thats not surprising

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  • replied
    Chillax for now dude. Its hard to know what the law will look like 100%, never mind what the interpretation will be. Overall its heavily aimed at content sites like YouTube etc. Game dev forums? Not so much. It has a lot of tweaks and clarifications to go through first too. Epic and the UE4 forums are not the real target here... Stop overreacting...

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  • replied
    Originally posted by franktech View Post
    If you can look beyond the 'censored memes aspects for a moment....
    Fundamentally, Europe is going after Big Tech to get them to pay up....
    Pay for news snippets / revenue share models for creative industries.

    But the law is catching lots of others in the net and so will be hard to predict.
    It seems rushed and badly thought through versus GDPR which is far better.
    The aim is laudable but its likely to have serious unintended consequences...
    That's putting it mildly. This forum here for example would be banned in Europe unless you agree to install an automatic content filter (similar to youtube content ID system but even more draconian) that scans everything posted on these forums including images, videos and even text and then automatically delete them instantly or else face massive fines. This isn't realistic so odds are you will just have to remove the forum entirely for Europeans.

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  • replied
    If you can look beyond the 'censored memes aspects for a moment....
    Fundamentally, Europe is going after Big Tech to get them to pay up....
    Pay for news snippets / revenue share models for creative industries.

    But the law is catching lots of others in the net and so will be hard to predict.
    It seems rushed and badly thought through versus GDPR which is far better.
    The aim is laudable but its likely to have serious unintended consequences...

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  • replied
    This will basically make it illegal to share or upload anything in Europe.

    Leave a comment:

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