NVIDIA GameWorks Integration

[Nudlegaru]

As for the hair spec, I would suggest the Marschner model:

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~srm/publi.../SG03-hair.pdf


Followed by the Kajiya-Kay model, which was just recently used by "The Order 1886" very successfully I think:

From page 33:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020162...t-Gen-Material

They need to add anisotropic shading to the hair to get more realism but UE4 can't handle that, it fakes it using some inaccurate AA method.

[The_Distiller]

You would have to implement a new/custom shading model, sure. Ehamloptiran already implemented the Kajiya-Kay model successfully (post 19-21). So what do you mean it can't handle it?

https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...=hair+solution

[Nudlegaru]

You would have to implement a new/custom shading model, sure. Ehamloptiran already implemented the Kajiya-Kay model successfully. So what do you mean it can't handle it?

https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...=hair+solution

I am talking about this: http://www.3drender.com/glossary/anisotropic.htm

In some content example map, they talk about it and how the engine can't get real anisotropic shading in metals, let alone in hair and that they are using some AA technique to mimic it and they talked about it in a twitch live stream too (talking about SSSSS and Fortnite, maybe the stream about 4.5 if I remember correctly). You can check that.

I always checked Ehamloptiran work and it was great (I wonder what hapepned to him since we didn't see him for a long long time and I hope he is fine and comes back). There is no way he has anisotropic shading in his model and it is not visible in his work. In fact, he asked to get the code to integrate Nvidia hair works in his model but they refused so He turned toward ATI and got TressFX from them and his work is based on it. Both Nvidia Hair works and TressFx don't have anisotropic shading. In fact if Epic succeeds in putting it correctly for metals, this is already a very big thing.

Edit: Here is a quick confirmation I just found now: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...tropy-material

You can find more and more by yourself !

Edit: Found it, starts around 52:30: http://youtu.be/DQt_OopZadI?t=52m30s

Also found it at content examples under Material_Experimental Level:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27083[/ATTACH]

[n00854180t]

Is that a vote for FW integration?

Do want FaceWorks. For me the most interesting bits are FLeX stuff, and all the character related things (Hair/Face etc.).

[The_Distiller]

I'm well aware of what anisotropic shading is, and I remember that stream. All that these two sources state though is, that it is currently not supported.

As you can see in these AMD slides, TressFX very well uses an anisotropic lighting model. In fact is uses exactly the two methods I mentioned. Check page 7:

http://www.slideshare.net/DevCentral...7-billbilodeau

[DotCam]

Gonna put this into the first post, and edit it a little bit to make it more descriptive about this threads purpouse.

Also Cube, it might be a huge hassle, but this thread is not really in the correct forum. At this point it would make more sense for it to be in the Engine Source & Github section, or maybe Rendering? Not sure.

We would have to leave a long re-director, like 10 days or so... It's outgrown a feature request, but might be more trouble than it's worth to move it. I'll leave it up to you, maybe we can get some feedback from those who are posting here as to where it belongs?

[gboxentertainment]

Hi,

I've been discussing the shadow issues with one of the VXGI engineers, and he thinks he sees what is going on, and believes he has a fix for it. We'll try to get it in there ASAP, but please understand that this is a very busy week with preparation for GDC.

One thing I've noticed lately is that it is becoming more and more of a challenge to keep up with all of the substantial support issues raised here, because the discussion gets mixed in with general questions, and the threads are all intertwined. I think it would make sense to move this shadow issue, and any other big topics, over to the 'issues' feature on Github (https://github.com/NvPhysX/UnrealEngine/issues ). Would this work for you? If you are willing, please summarize your findings on shadows with point lights, spot lights, etc., as an issue, and then I'll see if I can get the VXGI engineers to participate directly. You might separate out translucency and particles into separate issues, if that makes sense to you.

It is a bit inefficient for me to act as intermediary, I think we can make progress much more quickly if we organize the conversation. What do you think?

Thanks,
Mike

Hey I think this is a great idea. Sorry for pestering you while you guys are busy preparing for GDC and thanks for keeping us updated.
Although the reason I was posting the issues here is that I'm hoping other members of the community who may have some insights into the code would be able to come up with their ideas or solutions.

[Nudlegaru]

I'm well aware of what anisotropic shading is, and I remember that stream. All that these two sources state though is, that it is currently not supported.

As you can see in these AMD slides, TressFX very well uses an anisotropic lighting model. In fact is uses exactly the two methods I mentioned. Check page 7:

http://www.slideshare.net/DevCentral...7-billbilodeau

Well, if TressFX has anisotropic shading in general , I don't see any hair technique wether NVidia Hairworks, TressFX, or Ehamloptiran version could use anisotropic shading in UE4 since it doesn't (currently) support it in its internal renderer unless they do real magic.

[The_Distiller]

@PLASTICA-MAN:

That's why Ehamloptiran integrated a custom lighting model. Which is of course necessary, as I wrote in my second post.

From his thread:
"...since I am compositing the hair in the translucency pass, basically need to do standard forward rendering lighting/shadowing."
"I moved to the translucency stage and am rendering using a kind of forward renderer with a custom lighting model."

[Mike.Skolones]

@PLASTICA-MAN:

That's why Ehamloptiran integrated a custom lighting model. Which is of course necessary, as I wrote in my second post.

From his thread:
"...since I am compositing the hair in the translucency pass, basically need to do standard forward rendering lighting/shadowing."
"I moved to the translucency stage and am rendering using a kind of forward renderer with a custom lighting model."

I'm not the right guy to speak of the details, I'll wait for one of the HairWorks developers to provide that. But I can tell you that the main reason HW-UE4 has been this long in the works is that we had to think very carefully about the rendering pipeline, particularly AA and translucency. So I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you see what they've achieved so far. Keep an eye out for demos at GDC.

--Mike

[The_Distiller]

@Mike: Thanks for the info and I can't wait to see it in action

[Cube2222]

Also Cube, it might be a huge hassle, but this thread is not really in the correct forum. At this point it would make more sense for it to be in the Engine Source & Github section, or maybe Rendering? Not sure.

We would have to leave a long re-director, like 10 days or so... It's outgrown a feature request, but might be more trouble than it's worth to move it. I'll leave it up to you, maybe we can get some feedback from those who are posting here as to where it belongs?

Gonna think about it, I think everyone is used to this location, however, as this thread will be alife for a long time, then it should be in the correct location.

[Nudlegaru]

@ Mike, lol how did your firm manage to get Turbulence, Rain effects FACEWORKS (that I have never seen in any game yet) and other stuff on the dinosaur -should be extinct- UE3 and not on the mighty UE4?



Really sounds weird, or maybe a marketing move since devs still use UE3 and Batman is a famous and profitable game (thus forcing people to get better NVidia cards to run your effects) while UE4 is still not maintsream and didn't conquer the market yet?

[Voodoo]

@ Mike, lol how did your firm manage to get Turbulence, Rain effects FACEWORKS (that I have never seen in any game yet) and other stuff on the dinosaur -should be extinct- UE3 and not on the mighty UE4?



Really sounds weird, or maybe a marketing move since devs still use UE3 and Batman is a famous and profitable game (thus forcing people to get better NVidia cards to run your effects) while UE4 is still not maintsream and didn't conquer the market yet?

@PLASTICA-MAN

if I remember correctly they are using a heavily modified version of UE3 they probably have the source code for the UE3, so it is possible for them to do/add anything they would like. Really excited for this game looks fantastic! I do sense a disturbance in the Force PLASTICA-MAN maybe you are on the red team? or is my Yoda whiskers mistaken...

[Nudlegaru]

@ Voodoo, on the contrary lol! I always hated the red side aka UE3 (maybe a revelation for you), but now I am one of the biggest supporters of the blue side aka UE4. That is why I always opposing AAA devs still using UE3 for this new gen and not investing in using UE4.