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Does this mean that games cant be moddable?

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    Does this mean that games cant be moddable?

    According to the EULA, you cannot distribute engine tools to the end-users (such as Unreal Editor), nor can you distribute code or material that can be used to make a standalone product. Since everythign is written in C++ now, we cannot possibly distribute anything usable without distributing everything, which we cant do? So this basically means if I were to make a game, then anyone who plays the game cant develop their own custom content for the game? Not even maps?

    I would like clarification on this matter, thank you.

    (Although, I guess this would mean I would have to develop my OWN editor and implement something like lua manually to get this type of moddability, I just hoping I wont have to do that.)

    #2
    Hmm, I would like to know the answer to this too.

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      #3
      If they pay a one time $20 fee, they will be able to get the unreal editor from unreal, and mod it that way.

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        #4
        I hope we can beat you to release with our asset store. Assuming that for a second, you could make your modding tools / game editor available for free on it.

        Basically all the tool etc restrictions go away if you only redistribute to folks that also have a license.

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          #5
          This is a pretty interesting topic actually, I come from a modding background where I learnt most of my initial skills and gained the majority of my knowledge, so I strongly believe in mod support and PC-platform support.

          Daniel, is it possible to ship games with the editor enabled, but those end users require an unreal account with a subscription, or at least a build that is up-to-date with the game release in order to use it. For example, a dialog box warning users that in order to use the editor, you must first have an unreal account, or rather have the editor installed on your PC? That could be a good way to implement it, and also have some level of control over the mods too.

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            #6
            One of the things that excites us greatly is the prospect of UE4 developers creating moddable games

            The intended workflow is that mod makers would obtain UE4 access by subscribing here, getting access to the mainline Epic version of the code and tools. You'd then expose your version of the tools (if they differ from mainline) and the C++ source code (if you choose to share it) with the community via a GitHub fork which is open to current UE4 subscribers you choose to give access.

            This workflow works right now and is supported by the EULA. Over time hopefully we can find a more polished approach to redistributing the tools.

            The benefit of keeping mods in the UE4 community is the Marketplace providing a way for everyone (indies, mod makers, and even triple-A) teams having access to a stream of new content, and a straightforward means of sharing some/all game code in GitHub via fork.

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              #7
              Would it not be possible to make a seperate "editor" inside the editor that people can use?
              I don't mean anything epic as modding a whole game, but i.e. a simple level designer that just takes pre-made props, and place them on a self-made interface.
              Think: make an N+ (or lbp) like editor.
              Last edited by Luos; 03-19-2014, 10:33 PM.

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                #8
                I'm a Kerbal Space Program modder. Although KSP uses Unity, there is one stumbling block in the modder workflow in that system that I'm curious if will be an issue in UE4 too.

                A mod can be as simple as a text file, imported by the game's code. That would obvioulsy be possible in UE/C++ too. The problematic things are importing meshes and using dll files.
                Can UE import an fbx file at runtime, or is there a way to compile an fbx file to a format that can be imported at runtime, without having access to the editor?
                And is there a way in C++ to load a dll file at runtime so modders can add their own code? (I don't know how the dll import is handled in Unity, but I assume it's just a language level thing, not an engine thing)

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Tim Sweeney View Post
                  One of the things that excites us greatly is the prospect of UE4 developers creating moddable games

                  The intended workflow is that mod makers would obtain UE4 access by subscribing here, getting access to the mainline Epic version of the code and tools. You'd then expose your version of the tools (if they differ from mainline) and the C++ source code (if you choose to share it) with the community via a GitHub fork which is open to current UE4 subscribers you choose to give access.

                  This workflow works right now and is supported by the EULA. Over time hopefully we can find a more polished approach to redistributing the tools.

                  The benefit of keeping mods in the UE4 community is the Marketplace providing a way for everyone (indies, mod makers, and even triple-A) teams having access to a stream of new content, and a straightforward means of sharing some/all game code in GitHub via fork.
                  I don't think modders are going to see it that way. Most people buy a game, and if it has mod support, expect that support as part of the package. We're intending to release our base game for around $10 - a $240 a year subscription fee on top of that just to build content suddenly becomes very steep. I should also point out that future versions of the engine (and all associated documentation and tutorials) will become increasingly incompatible with ours, and that we'd be likely to make significant adjustments to the editor. In these cases people are now paying a $19 subscription for a tool that they cannot even use for modding. This approach is not going to work.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Snjo View Post
                    I'm a Kerbal Space Program modder. Although KSP uses Unity, there is one stumbling block in the modder workflow in that system that I'm curious if will be an issue in UE4 too.

                    A mod can be as simple as a text file, imported by the game's code. That would obvioulsy be possible in UE/C++ too. The problematic things are importing meshes and using dll files.
                    Can UE import an fbx file at runtime, or is there a way to compile an fbx file to a format that can be imported at runtime, without having access to the editor?
                    And is there a way in C++ to load a dll file at runtime so modders can add their own code? (I don't know how the dll import is handled in Unity, but I assume it's just a language level thing, not an engine thing)
                    I may be jumping the gun here, I've not looked at any of this yet, but with the source available I should think pretty much anything is possible, so long as you don't trip over the EULA. Perhaps post these questions on the AnswerHub, which seems to get pretty quick responses, often from the team.

                    Re FBX Importer ... less certain about that as it's an Autodesk format and you'd have to refer to their licensing.

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                      #11
                      The problem with answerhub is that it's just plain awkward. It isn't suitable for actual discussion and threads get knocked off the front page within minutes.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by ambershee View Post
                        I don't think modders are going to see it that way. Most people buy a game, and if it has mod support, expect that support as part of the package. We're intending to release our base game for around $10 - a $240 a year subscription fee on top of that just to build content suddenly becomes very steep. I should also point out that future versions of the engine (and all associated documentation and tutorials) will become increasingly incompatible with ours, and that we'd be likely to make significant adjustments to the editor. In these cases people are now paying a $19 subscription for a tool that they cannot even use for modding. This approach is not going to work.
                        Have to agree here. I can understand the ecosystem argument that Tim is presenting, that having access to all content between games and projects would be useful. But I get the feeling that modders want to mod a specific game because they like that particular game, not because they are just interested in modding. Requiring a monthly subscription is quite a commitment for someone who wants to dabble in modding their favorite game. I guess the best response is to build in-game tools? I'm assuming those won't fall foul of the EULA?

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by ambershee View Post
                          The problem with answerhub is that it's just plain awkward. It isn't suitable for actual discussion and threads get knocked off the front page within minutes.
                          True, and I've never been a fan of the format myself, but then forums aren't really helpful either if the right people aren't reading them

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                            #14
                            A quick cross link seems appropriate:

                            https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...-model-loading

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by zoombapup View Post
                              Have to agree here. I can understand the ecosystem argument that Tim is presenting, that having access to all content between games and projects would be useful. But I get the feeling that modders want to mod a specific game because they like that particular game, not because they are just interested in modding. Requiring a monthly subscription is quite a commitment for someone who wants to dabble in modding their favorite game. I guess the best response is to build in-game tools? I'm assuming those won't fall foul of the EULA?
                              Yeah, you can build your own tools from scratch, but personally I wanted to strip the editor down to the bare bones and include that as part of the game (content import, blueprint scripting and PIE basically). The real issue is when Unreal 4 branches, different engines versions are obviously not going to be compatible - so if we release in 2015, chances are a 2017 version of the engine will have diverged massively, ignoring any changes and additional middleware we may have been using. Lastly, as developers it is impossible for us to police whether people have a UE4 license or not.

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